Some New Summoning Feats(Edited some more)

[Merlion]

I have written a small chain of feats for increasing the power of ones summoned monsters. Tell me what you think of em.


Augmented Summoning (General)
Your Summoned monsters are stronger than normal
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 1st level spells
Benefit: Any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell gains a +2 hit points per hit die and a +2 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls.


Greater Summoning (General)
Your summoned monsters are even more powerful than normal
Prerequisite: Augmented Summoning, Ability to cast 3rd level spells
Benefit: Any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell gains +4 Hit Points per Hit Die and a +4 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls. Thease bonuses do not stack with the bonuses from Augmented Summoning


Superior Summoning (General)
Your summoned monsters are extremely deadly
Prerequisite: Augmented Summoning, Greater Summoning, Ability to cast 5th level spells
Benefit: Any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell gains +5 Hit Points per Hit Die and a +5 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls. Thease bonuses do not stack with those from Augmented Summoning, or Greater Summoning.Additionally, they gain a +2 enhancement bonus to Str and Dex, and the saving throw DCs for their spells and special abilities increase by 2.

 

[drnuncheon]

The first is exactly double the power of 'Augment Summoning' from Tome & Blood, with a lower requirement to boot.

For the second, consider that +4 hp/die is going to almost double the base hit points of a lot of critters. That alone is a pretty hefty bonus for a feat, and +4 to hit and damage is like giving them a +8 strength on top of it.

The last one is even more over the top than the first two.

J

 

[Merlion]

Yep, twice the power of Augment Summoning. But have you ever seen anyone actualy use augment summoning? And the last two all have all the others are prerequsites as well as a level requirement.
However I might lower the middle one to +3 and the last one to +4...

 

[Olive]

Yep, twice the power of Augment Summoning. But have you ever seen anyone actualy use augment summoning? And the last two all have all the others are prerequsites as well as a level requirement.
However I might lower the middle one to +3 and the last one to +4...

yes i have seen a player use it IMC.

Also I agree with monte cook when he says that striaght level requirements are a bad idea... make it spell levels or BaB.

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

Referring to Augment Summoning:

yes i have seen a player use it IMC.

And? How did it play out?

I certainly intend to have any Conjuration specialist I use as an NPC take it as a feat. Its seems like it should be quite powerful but having never seen it in play . . .

 

[Technik4]

I think the original is powerful enough. A wizard should not be able to summon a monster as difficult as the one he is fighting, after all he can summon multiple monsters, buff them, have the cleric buff them.

Expect the new haste to be a godsend for conjuration specialists, hasted summoned creatures (along with the rest of the party) will be very nice.

Technik

 

[Sir Whiskers]

For my campaign, I just created a mystic theurge npc to test the class as written. For flavor, I decided the character prefers to sit back and use summoning spells. I also use an expanded list of creatures for summoning.

Once I applied T&B's Augment Summoning feat to the creatures, I noticed that +1 per HD is minor for weak creatures, but noticeable on the more powerful ones. The +1 to attack and damage is significant on the weak creatures, and less so on the more powerful ones (a nice balance). To sum up, the feat has a useful benefit to virtually every creature summoned and, IMHO, is quite balanced.

If a GM wants to allow a character to further specialize in summoning magic, I would suggest the second Augment Summoning feat add only +2 per HD, +2 to attack and damage. The third would add only +3 per HD, +3 to attack and damage. Taking all three feats would tend to make a summoner a "one-trick pony", as his summoning spells would have much more bang-for-the-buck, so to speak, than many spells of the same level. However, given that spellcasters generally don't have a lot of feats to start with, I don't think it would be unbalanced - just a bit tricky for the player, as any specialist wizard/sorcerer can be.

 

[Merlion]

I still find it underpowered for a feat that cant be taken till 3rd level. I've toyed with the idea of making my augmented summoning only +1 but still avaible at first level.
However since other forms of magic can recieve a +2 bonus to saving throw DCs or checks to overcome spell resistance at 1st level, and feats such as Empower and Maximize can greatly increase damage, etc. But theirs only one published feat to enhance summoning and its (A Not avaible till 3rd level and B) on the weak side.

I'm not following you about the Mystic theurge?

 

[Technik4]

Your feats are too powerful because:

Summon Monster 1
Regular Celestial Badger: 6hp, 2 claws +5 melee (d2-1), bite +0 melee (d3-1)
Augmented Celestial Badger: 8hp, 2 claws +7 melee (d2+1), bite +2 (d3+1)

Summon Monster 3
Celestial Dire Badger: 25 hp, 2 claws +4 melee (d4+2), bite -1 melee (d6+1)
Imp. Augmented Celestial Dire Badger: 37hp, 2 claws +8 melee (1d4+6), bite +3 melee (d6+5)

Summon Monster 5
Celestial Dire Lion: 60hp, 2 claws +12 (d6+7), bite +7 (d8+3)
Greater Imp Augmented C. Dire Lion: 100hp, 2 claws +18 (d6+13), bite +13 (d8+6)

As you pointed out wizards can make many spells more powerful with metamagic feats or the spell focus feat keyed to their school (which to be fair, metamagics really can't be used until at least 3rd level and even at that point not for damage) whereas summoners get the short end. Thats why augment summoning is a feat (and a good one, it doesn't alter the level of the spell).

Your feats give way too much with a very small associated "cost". First and foremost, I think that with the power they are giving they should be special metamagic feats which only apply to spells that summon creatures. Second I think the requirements should be stiffer. Augment Summoning is fine with just requiring 3rd (or if you prefer, 1st) level spells. I would require Spell Focus: Conjuration for greater and Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration for superior. Augment should not alter the spell's level, greater should be +1 level, and superior should be +2.

Finally I think the bonuses should go: Augment +1 hp/HD, +1 attack and damage; Greater +2 hp/HD, +2 attack and damage; Superior +3 hp/HD, +3 attack and damage, +2 bonus to spell-like abilities.

Augment Summoning is not a metamagic, and would stack with Greater Summoning and Superior Summoning. The +2 Str and Dex for Superior is unnecessary.

Technik

 

[Merlion]

Hmm...I think I need to up the requirements back to where I had them. One way or another 1st level for the 1st one, 7th for the second and 12th for the 3rd. Perhaps also the +1/+2/+3. The Str and Dex bonus being unnecessary is pure opnion. But yes I hadnt computed exactly how they would scale, so a minor bump down is probably in order.
I dont really like the idea of them as metamagic feats. it fits the summoners version of spell focus etc idea but no...and doing that AND adding additional other feats as pre reqs...definitly not. See the way I have them since they arent metamagic feats they cant be taken with bonus wizard feats...and each one requires all the previous ones as prerequsites. so as it is a spellcaster must use his precious regular feats up if he wants to aqquire the most powerful of thease feats. Also, making them metamagic feats would make them highly suboptimal for Sorcerers(and Bards) since for them to use them on summon monster spells would require 2 full rounds of casting time.

How does this look:Augmented Summoning (General)
Your Summoned monsters are stronger than normal
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 1st level spells
Benefit: Any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell gains a +1 hit points per hit die and a +1 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls.


Greater Summoning (General)
Your summoned monsters are even more powerful than normal
Prerequisite: Augmented Summoning, Ability to cast 3rd level spells
Benefit: Any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell gains +2 Hit Points per Hit Die and a +2 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls. Thease bonuses do not stack with the bonuses from Augmented Summoning


Superior Summoning (General)
Your summoned monsters are extremely deadly
Prerequisite: Augmented Summoning, Greater Summoning, Ability to cast 5th level spells
Benefit: Any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell gains +3 Hit Points per Hit Die and a +3 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls. Thease bonuses do not stack with those from Augmented Summoning, or Greater Summoning.Additionally, they gain a +2 enhancement bonus to Str and Dex, and the saving throw DCs for their spells and special abilities increase by 2.