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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wolfwood2" data-source="post: 3560855" data-attributes="member: 39394">There's this game I play in where a player, let's call them "X" has a mostly bard character.  X chose to load their PC up as a social type, with lots of Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and that sort of thing.  Okay, fine.The problem is that X is a very slow thinker.  When attempting to rolepay out a conversation, X tends to say the most straightfoward thing possible, tends not to catch on to conversational nuances very quickly, and agonizes a long time over simple decisions.  X is not very skilled at eliciting information or otherwise thinking of useful responses we would like to have the NPCs make or useful things we would like to request that the NPCs do.  (This last point is the biggest hurdle to overcome, as I'll discuss below.)From the couple of examples I have seen so far, it comes to the other players just directly telling X out of character that, "You should ask them about this," or "Try telling them this."  Watching X roleplay out a conversation is painfully awkward and uncomfortable.  It's much more entertaining to watch pretty much any other player in the group talk to an NPC, even though our charaters do not have particularly good social skills.Now the usual response to this is along the lines of, "You don't expect a player to be good at swinging a sword in real life in order to make an attack roll!  The player should roll according to the skills of the PC, and the DM should have the NPC respond to the results of the roll."  I really do agree with that, but it only works up to a point.A player doesn't have know how to swing a sword in real life, but a player does need to have some idea of the best way to position his sword-swinging miniature on the battlemat in order to attack an enemy miniature.  A player does need to have some understanding of when to have his PC pull out a sword and when to pull out a bow and when to cast magic missile instead.Similiarly, a player with a PC with lots of social skills needs to have some idea of what they want to do with those skills.  It's fine to make a Diplomacy roll to make an NPC like you, but the player then needs to decide what favors they wish to ask of their new-found friend.  I don't care if a player is the worst liar in the world as long as they make their Bluff roll... but the player needs to be able to decide when it is appropriate to Bluff in the first place and what tall tale they are trying to sell.  An Intimidate check can make an NPC do what you want, but a player needs to decide what it is they want the NPC to do.You get the idea.  It's not an issue of shyness, but more of a lack of ability to think of interesting social situation type stuff to do.  A typical X social encounter might go something like this.X's PC approaches a guard.X: Can we speak to your boss.DM: The guard says no, he's not taking visitors right now.X: Okay.  My PC turns around and goes away.  Sorry guys, we can't get in.OTHER PLAYERS: Wait, wait, you've got massive social skills.  Why don't you try to bluff him or just tell him we really need to see the boss or something!X: Oh yeah!  Okay, my PC goes up to the gate guard and says- (starts thinking)(thirty seconds pass)OTHER PLAYERS: Tell him you're an old friend of the boss!  Tell him it's really important and pretty-please can't he make an exception!  Threaten to have his job if he doesn't let us in!X: Oh, uh, I say that we really need to see the boss and it's very important.DM: Make a Diplomacy roll.X: (rolls, easily makes it)DM: Okay, the guard is moved by your plea and lets you in.We were told that the next several adventures will be in a city, as opposed to recent adventures tromping around in a jungle.  Logically the social PC should take center stage, but I think it is going to be very frustrating if the other players have to prompt every aspect of  X's conversations.</blockquote>

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