Some questions about Homunculi creation

[FoxWander]

I’m running an Artificer and have some questions and thoughts about Homunculi. I really like all the different types in the Eberron books (Campaign setting and Magic of) and can’t help thinking of variations and new types. But I need to figure a few things out first…

1) Has anyone worked out the pricing for Homunculi? The one in the SRD requires caster level 4 and lists the spells arcane eye, mirror image and mending with a cost of 1050 gp and 78 XP (plus 50 gp of raw materials). What’s the formula to get that cost in gp/xp? The closest I can figure is a variation of the “multiple similar abilities” pricing, 100% for the costliest power then 50% for the rest with a 50gp multiplier. That works out as: 4th level spell X 4th level caster X 50gp = 800gp for arcane eye, (2 X 4 X 50)/2 = 200gp for mirror image and (0.5 X 4 X 50gp)/2 = 50gp for mending, totaling 1050gp for spells. But how does the 78xp work? 1/25 of 1050 is 42, or 84 for the "market" price. Anyway, IDHMBWM, so can someone check that formula against the other Eberron homunculi to see if it works?

2) If that is a valid formula for spell costs now we can work out the pricing for different or custom types (assuming the DM allows this). So, not worrying about the cost for now, what would be the effects of some additional spells in the mix. For instance- can I include the spells for TWO different types to get ONE that can do the functions of both, like a Packmate/Arbelester? (Assuming also an increased materials cost and higher craft DCs for the additional construction) Could I combine TWO like this and add Alter Self into the mix to get a homunculus that can transform into a different type, such as an Expeditious Messenger that can become an Arbalester? How about something totally new- a Spirit Homunculus that has Magic Jar or Animate Object allowing it to possess objects (up to Small size) and Animate them?

Any other thoughts on the matter? I’m starting to see a character concept of a Shadowrun-style Drone Rigger in D&D. Of course that could bring up ugly “you got your sci-fi in my fantasy” arguments, but it’s still a cool concept. And then if you take the Alter Self concept too far you get Transformers.

(Disclaimer- I’m not sure if this is Rules or House Rules, but I think it fits here better. Assuming custom items are allowed, this is just Rules stuff. But then, are custom items a house rule in themselves?)

 

[Iku Rex]

1) Has anyone worked out the pricing for Homunculi? The one in the SRD requires caster level 4 and lists the spells arcane eye, mirror image and mending with a cost of 1050 gp and 78 XP (plus 50 gp of raw materials). What’s the formula to get that cost in gp/xp? The closest I can figure is a variation of the “multiple similar abilities” pricing, 100% for the costliest power then 50% for the rest with a 50gp multiplier. That works out as: 4th level spell X 4th level caster X 50gp = 800gp for arcane eye, (2 X 4 X 50)/2 = 200gp for mirror image and (0.5 X 4 X 50gp)/2 = 50gp for mending, totaling 1050gp for spells. But how does the 78xp work? 1/25 of 1050 is 42, or 84 for the "market" price. Anyway, IDHMBWM, so can someone check that formula against the other Eberron homunculi to see if it works?

Constructs are priced based on on an estimation of their abilities (or the abilites are estimated based on the price). The spells required to craft the construct (or homunculi) do not determine the price.

As for the XP cost, from Rules of the Game: Constructs (part 2) :

Cost: A construct's description (usually) includes a market price and a cost to create the construct. To calculate the creation cost for a construct, subtract the cost of any special materials the construct requires from the market price. Divide the remainder in half. The result you get represents the basic materials you must buy to build the construct. This basic cost includes the cost of the construct's body. Most construct descriptions include a separate cost for the body to allow DMs and players to use the Craft skill to create the body.

The total cost to create the construct is the basic cost plus the cost of special materials. For example, a construct with a market price of 100,000 gp and 10,000 gp worth of required special materials has a creation cost of 55,000 gp. (Here's the math: 100,000 - 10,000 = 90,000; then 90,000/2=45,000; then 45,000 + 10,000 = 55,000 gp.)

Making the construct also requires experience points equal to 1/25th the market price minus the cost of special materials. The construct from the previous example has an XP cost of 3,600.

You can make an advanced version of a construct (one that has more Hit Dice than shown in the creature description). Each extra Hit Die adds 5,000 gp to the construct's market price. If you add enough Hit Dice to increase the construct's size, add an extra 50,000 gp to the construct's market price.

The MM homunculus' body requires 50 gp worth of materials to create (market price 150 gp, as per the craft skill [?]). I'm not sure if the total construction cost assumes that you made the body yourself or not - the XP cost doesn't add up either way. 78x25=1950, or 1950/2= 975 gp basic materials. It should be 80 XP (1000 gp basic materials + 50 gp for body materials) or 72 XP (900 gp basic materials + 150 gp for completed body).

The ECS homunculi are hard to figure out too. The dedicated wright is fine, but the three others have odd XP costs.

Edit: The ones in MoE make even less sense.

Any other thoughts on the matter? I’m starting to see a character concept of a Shadowrun-style Drone Rigger in D&D. Of course that could bring up ugly “you got your sci-fi in my fantasy” arguments, but it’s still a cool concept.

I've been working on an Eberron artificer construct master myself. IMO you need Craft Construct and effigy constructs (from Complete Arcane) to make anything that can stand up to serious opposition in combat.

 

[FoxWander]

Unfortunately, it seems Iku Rex is quite correct in the pricing of homunculi. I've got my books now, and there's no correlation, at all, between spells involved and cost. Which sucks, because it means creating new ones will be a pain in the arse 'balancing act' rather than a simple formula. It'd be nice if there was at least a formula that included skill ranks + feats + stats above X amount + spells = whatever. I mean, the 'creating magic items' section is complicated enough, adding construct pricing into it wouldn't make it any worse, and would probably help... at least help people like me.

Of course, pricing the homunculi I presented above should be a relatively simple matter- just estimate the price from what they have already based on the 'usefulness' of the combined abilities. A packmate/arbalester probably isn't 'worth' so much to cost the two prices simply added together. Maybe 75% of the combined cost would be appropriate. Although construction cost should be the combined priced + some extra for the extra work involved, and bump the craft DC up a bit.

The Messenger/Arbalester might cost even less. Even though it's two-in-one also, it's not both at the same time. Combining them in this way has both pros and cons. The main advantage your really getting is risking less damage should your creation get destroyed, but you don't have the capability of both at the same time, should you need it. Maybe 60% of the combined cost or so, and construction would be a straight combined cost since you make both bodies and combine them magically.

The Spirit Homunculus- I have no idea how to price it. Anyone have any ideas? When outside of a possessed object it would have virtually no abilities, other that perhaps a spy/scout. It's main usefulness is in possessing and animating objects. And it has the advantage of being able to jump out of an object before it is destroyed, avoiding destruction itself. The best pre-created comparable creature is the digital homunculus from Urban Arcana, which can do essentially the same thing. It allows it's master to operate an electronic device by remote, and provides a +2 bonus to computer use and disable device checks to operate them directly. So essentially it's the omni-gadget that so many super-spys seem to have in TV/movies. Unfortunately, it's D20 Modern so it's a Wealth check rather than a straight price. What's does a dc 20 wealth check equal in gold?

Less damage risk is the thing I'm aiming for with the concepts I've presented here. I really like the idea of homunculi (very gadgeteer-like) but the potential damage you risk is worrisome.

But, I do have homunculi ideas that don't involve simply mashing two types together. I guess I'll just write them up and present them for some feedback on cost. In the meantime, does anyone else have some ideas or some home-brewed homunculi to share?