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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 7456744" data-attributes="member: 6777737">I think the issue is that "magical" is actually a real and significant bonus in 5e, even "+0 magical."  Many of the higher level creatures resist or are immune to weapon damage... unless the weapon is magical.  That means that for most campaigns, high level creatures have no special resistance to the attacks of martial characters.  AC doesn't scale with level anymore; that's why a CR 3 Knight and a CR 16 Marilith both have AC 18.  Yet some of the same creatures just have magical resistance that there's no way past.  The difference between fighting a Balor as a Fighter and fighting a Balor as a Wizard is tremendous.  Dragons can be largely the same.  There are a lot of special magical defenses in the game that you just have to change tactics for, but the only special martial defense can be overcome by the weapon from the treasure hoard you found 12 levels ago.I mean, take a close look at the Marilith.  The Fighter has to contend with this:AC 18189 hpResistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks (i.e., nothing)Adds 5 to its AC against one melee attack that would hit it from an attacker she can see (this costs a reaction, but the Marilith gets a reaction every turn)OK, AC 23 is better, but with a +1 weapon the end game attack bonus is still +12 before any class features.  The Fighter with a bog standard +1 weapon has a 50% chance to hit through the parry, and they'll do full damage... and the parry only counts on one attack.The Wizard has to deal with this:189 hpSaving Throws Str +9, Con +10, Wis +8, Cha +10Resistance to cold, fire, lightningImmune to poisonTruesight 120', telepathy 120', teleport 120'The marilith has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.Ok, so, Int is +4 but there basically are no Int saves beyond Maze... and that won't kill it.  Dex is +5... but few dex saves do decent damage that isn't cold, fire, or lightning, essentially meaning that the marilith has improved evasion.  So Will +8 is the bad save?  It's highly unlikely a Wizard PCs will ever see a save DC higher than 19.  And the Marilith has still gets advantage, so a 75% chance to make Will saves against the end game DC and that's the bad save?And, yeah, mariliths hit like a truck... but they hit like a truck against anybody.Fiends, elementals, golems, and dragons are kind of all like this.  A Fighter with a basic magic weapon is one of the most terrifying things in the game.  If that's intentional, then it's weird that they get magic weapons beginning around level 3.I mean, yeah, "the game isn't balanced around magic items," but that doesn't mean the game doesn't intend for you to find them.  Quite the opposite!  The treasure rules tell you to give them out.  Look at what the Wizard has to deal with.  There's layers of defense there that encourages some hesitation.  Not for Fighters.  I mean, yes, the game needs to be accessible, but a) spellcasting classes need to be accessible, too, b) "everything martial" shouldn't be a button mashing strategy that's also the best possible strategy against most high CR creatures.Like the Wizard needs the Fighters help here.  What does the Fighter need the Wizard's help with?  Utility magic and hordes of chaff?</blockquote>

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