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Some thoughts after more time with the game...
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<blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 6719664" data-attributes="member: 9053"><p>It has been my experience that bounded accuracy can be a real problem in the game. It's something I didn't ask for, but it's there as a critical part of 5E, so I have to live with it. What you've experienced is something that's a real issue. If it's "working as intended" it's not something you notice, but as you've seen with the EK character, it's very easy to go off the rails.</p><p></p><p>Because bounded accuracy is baked into the system, small shifts in accuracy or AC have a big effect on the game, much more than you might think. A few boosts in accuracy make targets trivial to hit, and exacerbate issues with the -5/+10 damage feats. A high AC, which is very easy for some types of characters to get, has a similar effect in the other direction: you're just missed most of the time, and stronger monsters don't necessarily make up for this.</p><p></p><p>So high AC becomes a really good thing, too good a thing if you're not facing opponents with powers that target saves. If you're facing "humanoid" opponents, it's the only thing you need. 5E removed attacks against Reflexes/Fortitude and Willpower and replaced them with saves. This removed a lot of options for the DM to deal with high AC characters since there's no "touch AC" component or other attacks any more.</p><p></p><p>I've seen a character with a high AC change the tone of a campaign where everyone else is racing to keep pace. Characters with lower ACs that can't wear heavy armor struggle to stay effective in a hand to hand fight, which moves them to ranged roles. That may not be something they want to do, but if your rogue is brutalized in hand to hand while the paladin is largely unfazed by it, you go to ranged combat to stay alive. Or switch characters.</p><p></p><p>The typical response to a high AC by the GM is to bring in monsters that have saving throw attacks, and that typically means magical creatures. That's not something everyone wants in their games but you're stuck doing it.</p><p></p><p>What to do about it?</p><p></p><p>I haven't run very much 5E, but I have helped a DM with it. What I did was to have them take a look at monsters and adjust them for what their true attack bonus should be. If you look at big, strong monsters, their attacks don't always reflect what their raw proficiency bonus + stat bonus should be. That has helped a little bit. I have also worked with my groups and the DM to restrict stacking a bit to keep ACs toned down a bit. We also introduced a "touch AC" mechanic back into the game for some attacks.</p><p></p><p>We've considered changing the base AC mechanic to reflect a proficiency bonus for characters who aren't wearing heavy armor, but that's a work in progress.</p><p></p><p>To be honest, this is one of the things that's kept my group from adopting 5E since there doesn't seem to be an easy fix for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SteveC, post: 6719664, member: 9053"] It has been my experience that bounded accuracy can be a real problem in the game. It's something I didn't ask for, but it's there as a critical part of 5E, so I have to live with it. What you've experienced is something that's a real issue. If it's "working as intended" it's not something you notice, but as you've seen with the EK character, it's very easy to go off the rails. Because bounded accuracy is baked into the system, small shifts in accuracy or AC have a big effect on the game, much more than you might think. A few boosts in accuracy make targets trivial to hit, and exacerbate issues with the -5/+10 damage feats. A high AC, which is very easy for some types of characters to get, has a similar effect in the other direction: you're just missed most of the time, and stronger monsters don't necessarily make up for this. So high AC becomes a really good thing, too good a thing if you're not facing opponents with powers that target saves. If you're facing "humanoid" opponents, it's the only thing you need. 5E removed attacks against Reflexes/Fortitude and Willpower and replaced them with saves. This removed a lot of options for the DM to deal with high AC characters since there's no "touch AC" component or other attacks any more. I've seen a character with a high AC change the tone of a campaign where everyone else is racing to keep pace. Characters with lower ACs that can't wear heavy armor struggle to stay effective in a hand to hand fight, which moves them to ranged roles. That may not be something they want to do, but if your rogue is brutalized in hand to hand while the paladin is largely unfazed by it, you go to ranged combat to stay alive. Or switch characters. The typical response to a high AC by the GM is to bring in monsters that have saving throw attacks, and that typically means magical creatures. That's not something everyone wants in their games but you're stuck doing it. What to do about it? I haven't run very much 5E, but I have helped a DM with it. What I did was to have them take a look at monsters and adjust them for what their true attack bonus should be. If you look at big, strong monsters, their attacks don't always reflect what their raw proficiency bonus + stat bonus should be. That has helped a little bit. I have also worked with my groups and the DM to restrict stacking a bit to keep ACs toned down a bit. We also introduced a "touch AC" mechanic back into the game for some attacks. We've considered changing the base AC mechanic to reflect a proficiency bonus for characters who aren't wearing heavy armor, but that's a work in progress. To be honest, this is one of the things that's kept my group from adopting 5E since there doesn't seem to be an easy fix for it. [/QUOTE]
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