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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 2316301" data-attributes="member: 30001">The basic point I've been trying to make on this subject is that victory in battle can be the result of something other than personal "single-combat" fighting ability (which I equate with level).  The tactics, command, and morale of the Swiss could have been superior, and thus the consistent victories - though I'm not familiar with the reasons for win/loss.  The question could be whether or not you think a Swiss pikeman would be more likely to surivive a fireball than his Landsknechte counterpart.   OK, good point - I actually don't use the DMG demographics, I assumed that they were something like what I do use and it was easier than explaining the details.   I still say it comes down to demographics.  IMO it works like this:  The demographics rules that you use has to make it economical to form your armies with War1s (assuming that you want this).  Nobleman A's army would be 500 War1s, 50 War3s, and maybe 5 or so characters of levels 5 and up, perhaps a 10th level leader (Nobleman A) and an 8th level chaplain and his 8th level cousin or something.    Nobleman B, working with the same population, decides he wants a smaller army of higher level characters.  He takes the 50 War3s, but sends the War1s home.  Then he starts scouring the countryside.  He's able to locate another 30 or so level 3 characters, but they're independant minded pit-fighters, rogues, eccentric wizards etc.  They want money, land, etc.  In short, more expensive, less loyal, generally more trouble than if he just had stuck with the 500 War1s.  And he's not sure that his 80 L3 characters could really beat the 500 L1s that Nobleman A was able to more quickly field anyway.  500 arrows/round is a lot of arrows. Of course it also depends on the power-differential between low and high level characters (driven by availability of magic items and house rules).  If the 10th level noblemen can kill 500 War1s in one round, then he probably wouldn't bring them to a fight with Nobleman B.</blockquote>

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