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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 2317014" data-attributes="member: 4937">No, you haven't elimenated the 500 War1 army.  You've just said that there are small numbers of higher levels.  You still seem to think that the War1 army is a handy thing to have. Generally speaking, the answer is they do worse.   Run is a feat.  Fast movement is a trait of barbarians.  Clerics of even first level have expeditious retreat.   All can afford to have good mounts available to them.   Druids and Paladins can get exceptionally good mounts as companions.   Not War1 has a chance versus a moderately high level rogue or ranger in an environment with concealment.   Wizards and Sorcerers do not have to be moderately high level to cast invisibilty.  Magic items are handy, but if you think the problem is limited to magic items you badly underestimate the craftiness of a skilled group of player's.Do you have any idea how much fun I would have a moderately high level rogue killing off all the war1 pickets and scouts every night?  Do you have any idea how little equipped such a force of mixed level warriors would be to chase me around in the woods at night?I'm inclined to think that statement indicates you think the problem is nothing more than fireballs and invisibility.  The problem with starting to add to the force things like Hellhound guard dogs is that while you are greatly increasing how effective the force is, you are only emphasising how unimportant the War1's are to it's success.Believe me, flying invisible wizards with wands of fireballs are the most obvious problem, but they are by no means the only one.At which point, it becomes completely clear that an army is far better off spending money on elephant troops, hellhound gaurd dogs, and all these other solutions you keep bring up than they are on equipping 500 War1's.As you are, when you start talking about hellhound gaurd dogs, elephant troops, and "a L5 rogue scout with a potion of flying and sharp eyes. " Under the right circumstances.  But as I said, by the time you start talking about War3's, you are starting to talk about something that looks like an army and is capable of defending itself against a reasonable expectation about the rest of the demographic.  (5th-8th level characters)  It's the 1st level characters that I've been saying all along probably should be there.  If we start turning the army into 50 War's with a 5th level rogue scouts screening force, a hellhound 'canine' unit backed up by 5 5th level Wizard 'artillery' and 5 5th level cleric 'medics' then we are starting to look very much like the sort of army which I suggested would be effective against mid-level characters, reasonable CR monsters, etc.  I'm not.  I'm assuming that the advantages of a magic are more easily applied to a few high level characters than a large body of low level characters.  In other words, DM fiat.  There is nothing in the spellbook which suggests such a thing is possible.  There is a Cure Diseace, but it works only on a single target at a time.   A 5th level cleric might be able to keep control of an outbreak of dysentary or influenze or cholera amongst a small group.   He'd be unable to do so amongst a group of 500 people. Again, DM fiat.  You've invented something to solve the problem.  If your 'magic bread' is more effective than iron rations, then its going to be expensive.   All that money would be better spent on something else.  Whatever magic you choose to make available will always be more effective at supporting small groups than large ones.  Don't you see how much money and effort you are spending on baby sitting these War1's just to keep them alive?  Don't you see already how bizarre things have become?  I also greatly disbelieve that desertion is more dangerous for War1's than being sent up against high level characters/high CR monsters.   What are they going to run into that is worse?No.  I'm thinking that Nobleman A is a 10th level whatever who is wasting his time and money babysitting 500 War1's who do nothing for him.  Instead they force him to spend alot of money keeping them alive against even the most basic attacks, ruin his stealth, limit his mobility, are expensive in upkeep, and aren't really decisive in the outcome of the battle anyway even assuming that they could arrive anywhere alive and in good order.   I'm thinking that he's using a really bad strategy.</blockquote>

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