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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8907271" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>I'm pretty sure BECMII & 2e used the same ~6=-1& ~15=+1 so very much agree. Prior to 3.x the attribute mods were not as critical to minmax as they've been such. Roll 3d6 & all the other methods worked because it didn't really matter but now players feel like they've been kneecapped if they don't get to start with the elite array or <em>better</em>. Even forcing players to <em>only</em> use the elite array instead of pointbuy often gets resisted as if the GM is kicking off some kind of adversarial back & forth arms race.</p><p>edit: For those who didn't play back then...</p><p>[spoiler="2e attributes were like this"]</p><p>It's complicated because they did a lot of things that have no clear analog to anything at all& bonuses were not in any way uniform across the attribs. Here are a couple minus the bits that don't convert</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Con<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1 -3hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 -2hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3 -2hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4 -1hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5 -1hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">6 -1hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">7 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">8 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">9 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">10 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">11 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">12 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">13 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">14 0hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">15 +1hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">16 +2hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">17 +3hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18 +4hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">19 +5hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">20 +5hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">21 +6hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">22 +6hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">23 +6hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">24 +7hp/level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">25 +7hp/level</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">str<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1 tohit mod -5/damage mod-4</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 tohit mod -3/damage mod-2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3 tohit mod -3/damage mod-1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4 tohit mod -2/damage mod-1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5 tohit mod -1/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">6 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">7 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">8 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">9 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">10 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">11 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">12 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">13 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">14 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">15 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">16 tohit mod +0/damage mod+1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">17 tohit mod +1/damage mod+1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18 it's complicated</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">19 tohit mod +3/damage mod+7</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">20 tohit mod +3/damage mod+8</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">21 tohit mod +4/damage mod+9</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">22 tohit mod +4/damage mod+10</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">23 tohit mod +5/damage mod+11</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">24 tohit mod +6/damage mod+12</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">25 tohit mod +7/damage mod+14</li> </ul></li> </ul><p></p><p>[/spoiler]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8907271, member: 93670"] I'm pretty sure BECMII & 2e used the same ~6=-1& ~15=+1 so very much agree. Prior to 3.x the attribute mods were not as critical to minmax as they've been such. Roll 3d6 & all the other methods worked because it didn't really matter but now players feel like they've been kneecapped if they don't get to start with the elite array or [I]better[/I]. Even forcing players to [I]only[/I] use the elite array instead of pointbuy often gets resisted as if the GM is kicking off some kind of adversarial back & forth arms race. edit: For those who didn't play back then... [spoiler="2e attributes were like this"] It's complicated because they did a lot of things that have no clear analog to anything at all& bonuses were not in any way uniform across the attribs. Here are a couple minus the bits that don't convert [LIST] [*]Con [LIST] [*]1 -3hp/level [*]2 -2hp/level [*]3 -2hp/level [*]4 -1hp/level [*]5 -1hp/level [*]6 -1hp/level [*]7 0hp/level [*]8 0hp/level [*]9 0hp/level [*]10 0hp/level [*]11 0hp/level [*]12 0hp/level [*]13 0hp/level [*]14 0hp/level [*]15 +1hp/level [*]16 +2hp/level [*]17 +3hp/level [*]18 +4hp/level [*]19 +5hp/level [*]20 +5hp/level [*]21 +6hp/level [*]22 +6hp/level [*]23 +6hp/level [*]24 +7hp/level [*]25 +7hp/level [/LIST] [*]str [LIST] [*]1 tohit mod -5/damage mod-4 [*]2 tohit mod -3/damage mod-2 [*]3 tohit mod -3/damage mod-1 [*]4 tohit mod -2/damage mod-1 [*]5 tohit mod -1/damage mod+0 [*]6 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]7 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]8 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]9 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]10 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]11 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]12 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]13 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]14 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]15 tohit mod +0/damage mod+0 [*]16 tohit mod +0/damage mod+1 [*]17 tohit mod +1/damage mod+1 [*]18 it's complicated [*]19 tohit mod +3/damage mod+7 [*]20 tohit mod +3/damage mod+8 [*]21 tohit mod +4/damage mod+9 [*]22 tohit mod +4/damage mod+10 [*]23 tohit mod +5/damage mod+11 [*]24 tohit mod +6/damage mod+12 [*]25 tohit mod +7/damage mod+14 [/LIST] [/LIST] [/spoiler] [/QUOTE]
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