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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8910024" data-attributes="member: 7006">One of the issues regarding skills which will always be an issue no matter how the numbers are moved around is the fact that for a large number of players... the numbers are not important.  What is important is the drama and narrative of the game and all skills do is potentially change how the drama and narrative resolve.Some people ask why Level 15 parties should potentially get stuck behind a locked door, and whether locks should become "more difficult" to open as you get higher in levels, or whether all lock DCs should remain static and that means locked doors are just not a thing for Level 15 parties to deal with, etc. etc. etc.  To a large number of us... that's missing the point.If there's a locked door in front of a Level 15 party... what is the reason why they are behind a locked door?  What's the drama that this locked door is presenting to the group?  What's the story that this group finds themselves in and what does not getting past this blocked passage do for the story?  The DM has put this blocked passage in front of the group for a reason-- what IS that reason, and why does it matter the group might not be able to get past it?That kind of drama and narrative occurs at all levels of play.  There is movement, or information, or obstacles that prohibit or re-route forward movement of the party towards their goals.  And so the question is WHY does the DM wish to re-route the party away from their goals, what does that change DO for the drama and story the group is playing out, and just how important is it that the group just not accomplish their goals straight away and instead HAVE to get re-routed?And a big answer to all of these question is "Throw up skill checks that can be failed so that the group cannot just succeed in everything they do, regardless of their level."Which means that having "set DCs" or "maxing out your skills" are not anything that should be cared about or done... because they run completely counter to drama and story.  There is no drama or story in a DM putting a locked door in the path of the Level 15 party with the lock being the same set DC as it's always been, because it's no longer accomplishing anything.  The party picks the lock and they move on.  Okay.  So what was the point of having it?  Same with a 5' pit trap in front of the party-- at their level they all can easily step over it with no risk of falling in... so what was the point of putting it there in the first place?Or if you are a player that tries to "max out Perception"... you basically are telling the DM that you as a player (and thus as a group) have no desire to every experience the drama or narrative of being taken by surprise.  Oooooooookay?  If that really matters to you... then... fine?  But from my perspective, losing that important part of drama and story-- shock-- makes the game a lot less interesting or compelling.  Why does avoiding being surprised matter that much that you will do everything you can to make sure it doesn't happen?  That's like the party that has to make sure every PC has Darkvision, so they never have to have light sources and thus can see all the creatures out there in the dark.  Yeah, it can be done... but why is the removal of that avenue of drama so important to you?And that's the thing about skills... they really aren't there to make sure you always "win" rolls.  They are there to vary up the different story-beats you will experience as part of playing the game.  Sometimes you will make Arcana checks and get some info to use... sometimes you won't make Arcana checks and not get that info.  Sometimes you will make an Insight check and get a sense of whether this stranger is trying to pull a fast one on you... and sometimes you won't make the Insight check and thus you'll have to make choices based on incomplete information (with all the positives and negatives that drama gives out.)Long story short... trying to just gamify any skill system so that it's just not anything more than charts of numbers to have and charts of numbers to roll against misses the forest through the trees.</blockquote>

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