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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stuntman" data-source="post: 5019583" data-attributes="member: 84817">I'm afraid you lost me here.  I don't understand how the lack of class creation guidelines mean that 4E is veering dangerously close to video games.In 2E the class creation guidelines end up allowing you to create a class that is crappy compared to anything premade.  They actually say this because if you tried to build one of the existing classes, you come up with something crappier.  I think they are designed this way because class creation rules can be exploited by gamers to create something really broken.I've played (tactical war) games where you have to choose the units for your side.  Each unit is given a point value that represents the strength of the unit.  In some games they had unit creation rules.  Of all unit creation rules I have seen, it is simply too easy for someone to create a unit that is stronger than the point value as given in the guidelines.  If you think min/maxing with premade classes are bad, min/maxing class creation is much worse.The only true way of ensuring a unit or class is balanced with another is by play testing.  Even with play testing, things can still fall through the cracks.  That is why you see errata come out.  For a game as complex as D&D, there is no class creation guidelines that you can make that would result in balanced classes.  You either have to skew the rules so that most classes are really underpowered to prevent those powerful classes from being over powered or you allow for overpowered classes.  Class creation guidelines will go against one of the design goals of 4E which is to create a game as balanced as possible.I have seen many custom made classes people have posted up in homebrew forums.  They have been able to come up with something without the need for explicit guidelines.  Guidelines may even be a hindrence to creativity.  A major aspect of a class is in the class features.  I don't know how you can create guidelines that will balance out a defender's class feature with that of a controller.  Even between different classes of the same role, the class features are very diverse.  Look at a ranger compared to an avenger.  The mechanics and how each performs their roles are so different.  I don't know how you could come up with guidelines that can encompase such diverse class features and features yet to be created.If you want to create a new class, just start making one and then compare it with an existing class via playtest.  Then adjust and repeat the test and adjust until you reached something satisfactory.  I'm sure that the designers have to go through this iterative process and do not have some guideline that allow them to pick stuff and come up wtih a balanced class.</blockquote>

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