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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 430176" data-attributes="member: 6875">And as long as those players RP a low-charisma character, that's exactly what happens.  The moment Charisma (4) Thorg-the-barbarian opens his mouth,and sounds like Charisma (18) SOCRATES the orator ... the player is no longer RPing Thorg, at all.Charisma is the attribute that determins how PERSUASIVE they are.  When trying to persuade someone, yes, that SINGLE statistic goversn the results.Rather like trying to bend an iron bar relies on the SINGLE statistic we call "strength".Your one example (one!) was inappropriate; it would leave the person with, usually, just as favorable an impression of the speaker ... the character would just look a bit foolosh.  Big deal, s/he still gets the help they needed.Intelligence determines how smart someone is -- itlets them have a big vocabulary if the players wants the PC to have one.Wisdom determines the PC's insight and intuition; with it (via Sense Motive), the character (and thus the player) can possibly determine which of several approaches to take....But when it comes to TAKING an approach, charisma determines how WELL they do so.  Flub that roll, and you flub the conversation/whatever.  As Kae Yoss described, that can have fairly drastically-bad results.Player abilities should never dictate character abilities.  I know 90% of what would be needed to manufacture black powder firearms (the lock -- trigger and such -- is the only sticking point, and I -could- go with a matchlock instead of a flintlock; it's a simpler mechanism).  Should, therefor, every character I play, be able to do the same?How about know the basic principles of powered flight?  Steam engines, internal combustion engines, ROCKET MOTORS ... ?Keeping that sort ofplayer skill/ability/mental resource seperate from those of the hcaracter is NO different from charisma-related issues.</blockquote>

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