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<blockquote data-quote="Doug McCrae" data-source="post: 5167939" data-attributes="member: 21169">I believe Odhanan is coming at this from an OD&amp;D perspective. In OD&amp;D, clerics don't get spells until 2nd level, so I can see how one could view all the non-magic user classes (yeah, all two of them) as mundane.Also in OD&amp;D, PCs die at 0, whereas in 1e and 3e (and I think it was an optional rule in 2e), PCs die at -10. So they're more fragile in OD&amp;D.In the manuscript Dave Arneson first sent to Gary Gygax, what later became OD&amp;D, PCs started at the equivalent of 4th level - heroes or wizards. So PCs that kick ass from the start are actually extremely old school. Even more old school than OD&amp;D.I think there's quite a strong tradition of not starting at 1st level in pre-4th ed D&amp;D. Most modules are for mid level PCs, not low level, and pregens are provided. The Dragonlance PCs start at 3rd-&gt;6th level. Interestingly this is precisely the 'sweet spot' Lew Pulsipher cites in his Introduction to Dungeons &amp; Dragons series in White Dwarf.&nbsp;- White Dwarf 24, 1981Playing 2e in the early 90s, we often started games around 5th-7th level.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Doug McCrae, post: 5167939, member: 21169"] I believe Odhanan is coming at this from an OD&D perspective. In OD&D, clerics don't get spells until 2nd level, so I can see how one could view all the non-magic user classes (yeah, all two of them) as mundane. Also in OD&D, PCs die at 0, whereas in 1e and 3e (and I think it was an optional rule in 2e), PCs die at -10. So they're more fragile in OD&D. In the manuscript Dave Arneson first sent to Gary Gygax, what later became OD&D, PCs started at the equivalent of 4th level - heroes or wizards. So PCs that kick ass from the start are actually extremely old school. Even more old school than OD&D. I think there's quite a strong tradition of not starting at 1st level in pre-4th ed D&D. Most modules are for mid level PCs, not low level, and pregens are provided. The Dragonlance PCs start at 3rd->6th level. Interestingly this is precisely the 'sweet spot' Lew Pulsipher cites in his Introduction to Dungeons & Dragons series in White Dwarf. - White Dwarf 24, 1981 Playing 2e in the early 90s, we often started games around 5th-7th level. [/QUOTE]

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