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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 186577" data-attributes="member: 2486">Another little input on the Glitterdust/See Invisibility argument:Glitterdust REVEALS the invisible creatures, whereas See Invisibility merely enables you to see them.If you think that there is no difference, think again.If an invisible foe is Glitterdusted, the whole party can see them and react and fight appropriately.If you can See Invisibility, then only you can see them.  Yes, you can operate at full effectiveness, but your fellow party members are still going to be in trouble (especially if there are Improved Invisible rogues skulking around).Thus, Glitterdust is the better option.  Note also that it is a great attack spell: blindness for 1round/level over a 10' radius is no laughing matter.  Compare with Blindness/Deafness, the spell, which, while Permanent is commensurately weaker.  Not only does it only affect one character, but it doesn't reveal invisible creatures.  Permanent is rarely that useful: most combats are over in a matter of rounds, not years.Regarding finding them in the first place: not that difficult really.  Listen, Spot or just a lucky guess is good enough: and since it's affecting a 10' radius you can always have a fair chance of hitting.Icy Burst is actually a very good choice: one I originally overlooked.  1 point of blunt damage is not subject to elemental damage, making it extremely useful, and most foes will choose Protection from Fire over Protection from Ice.Reduce?  Really?  Personally, by the time I get Teleport I just shove fellow characters in a Bag of Holding, teleport and take them out again.  I feel it slightly superfluous.Confusion: Exceptionally powerful.  Best 4th level spell IMO (possible exception: Polymorph Other).  With regard to hitting fellow party members, just be careful.  Do you really need it? YES.Dispel Magic and Dimension Door tend to quite good, although one wonders if you should wait until Teleport for the latter.Now for my take on bitbug's expansive list:Identify: Unnecessary.  You don't really want this as a sorceror, taking up a slot for something relatively rarely used.  Better to just loads up on scrolls (only 25gp a shot).Detect Secret Doors: Unnecessary unless no rogue in the party.Reduce: Superfluous.  Reducing weapon size is no big deal: taking a Huge weapon down to a medium weapon reduces average damage from 2d8 to d8.  Average damage is 4.5 pts less.  Really worth a spell?  Compare with Ray of Enfeeblement, which also takes down to hit and can mean heavily armoured characters collapse under the weight of their own equipment.  Or Charm Person just stops them attacking altogether.Blindness: Unnecessary with Glitterdust: see above.Hold Monster: Interesting, but depends on campaign.  Against mostly humanoid opponents, Dominate Person may be the better choice.  And I disagree with you about Confusion (see above).Most of your higher-level choices I think are very solid.Consider also:Horrid Wilting (no direct damage spell since 3rd levl I note)Otto's Irresistable DanceMazeTIME STOPImprisonment</blockquote>

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