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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MostlyHarmless42" data-source="post: 8002366" data-attributes="member: 6845520">While this is a start and a decent idea, we also have to acknowledge a couple of things, first as previously discussed not all metamagics are created equal; some are better than others and which are optimal changes depending on the game/situation. Frankly they should've designed metamagics to all cost the same number of points and balanced accordingly, or no more than one point of difference. Any metamagic that costs more than 2 points is frankly extremely costly for a long rest resource even if the effect is powerful and I'd have rather they capped the cost at 2 points and balanced them.We can definitely make the case that font of magic is perhaps their primary use and I do not belittle the versatility in turning lower level slots (which admittedly start to become lackluster outside of rare spells like shield (especially given that most cantrips out damage 1st and even some 2nd level spells eventually.However that all aside, if we continue your line of reasoning, the sorcerer ends up falling short of the wizard by quite a bit for multiple reasons; not only do they have significantly fewer spells to pick from due to a stunted list that damn near forces them to play a blaster (and practically forces them to be a FIRE mage at that...which is a whole other topic of discussion), but when you compare subclasses.I'd assume here is the point where one would argue that clearly the subclasses are equal because both gain a similar amount of abilities, but this goes to a point in Chaosmancer's argument. Using your logic we are either using spell points for metamagic or font of magic, which means we now have no points left for any subclass abilities. Wizards get free use of all their other class features gained from subclasses while more than half the sorcerer archetypes have abilities that use spell points.Frankly NO archetype should have an ability that costs spell points to use. Period. That even one does is criminal. That wotc keeps making more origins that use spell points is just adding salt to the wound, doubly so when their damn incessant need to keep churning out "metamagic lite" wizard schools that let them tweak spells as subclasses. If even one of those sees an official release it is a major blow against sorcerers.If sorcerers had been designed so that spell points regained on short rest like ki and had all their abilities use them as a resource it would be one thing. The only reason I don't house rule as such is because I've yet to figure out a fix to keeping them from abusing spell slot regen through font of magic.It harkens back to part of the real issue of the class, it's a hodgepodge of half-baked ideas that all have numerous ways to tweak and "fix" it in whatever way a DM selectively feels the sorcerer should be. I personally feel origins should've been the real focus of the class, or if not that metamagic. To pathfinder 2's credit, I absolutely love how their sorcerer gets and entirely different spell list based on which bloodline they pick (albeit even there not all are created equal).I also second Chaosmancer's assertion that the sorcerer has the least build diversity of any class. In my opinion fire [dragon] sorcerers, lighting [dragon] sorcerers, devine souls, and (in heavy social games only) sorcerers who focus on manipulative charms/illusions are all on an appropriate strength level, albeit the last one needs a damned sorcerer archetype dedicated to charm/illusions already! All other builds are lackluster and fall short due to lack of access to spells that make their intended builds work from the stunted spell list (all other blaster elements or someone who wants to be a battlefield controller), are too spell point costly (shadow), or are too DM contingent (wild) in order to actually shine.I still stand by the case that warlock and sorcerer should've been the same class, with warlock casting, and spell points being used to power invocations (metamagics should've been invocations), and the roleplaying fluff be you choose the source of how your magic manifests. I.e. a fiend sorcerer could've either had fiendish blood or made a pact with a fiend, a fey blooded sorcerer might had a dryad grandma or unicorn they met in the woods that saved them, etc.The design space is frankly limiting between them as is. That we don't have a fey sorcerer is directly because of the warlock and that each unearthed arcana for both classes has been often edging closer towards each other's official subclasses is likely not a coincidence.I think at minimum though most would agree that origin giving a few extra spells would help a long way, if nothing else.</blockquote>

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