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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1378868" data-attributes="member: 2167">From Al'KelharI have omitted all the things we agree on as it takes up too much space to reply “I agree too” repeatedly. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I do understand this concept. The fully mutable Class idea is out for the base build. A future “Advanced” build can change that (such as we may be seeing in the Advanced Players Handbooks that’s coming out).  I will be keeping in mind that the classes are: Druid (4.25 pages), Bard (3.75 pages), Cleric, Paladin & Core Sorcerer (3.5 pages), Monk (3.25 pages), Ranger & Wizard (3 Pages), Rogue (2.5 pages), Fighter (1.75 pages).This I would like to discuss and get various opinions on before I make any kind of decision.From a Purely Game mechanics argument: Why does anyone, especially the sorcerer-like Bard, get armor usage then?Armor is the D&D system’s protection. Weapons in D&D have nothing to do with protection unless you consider their use a part of the whole “amorphous” HP system. Also, if weapons are a part of defense and part of the HP system, then do people's HP go down when unarmed? If weapon use is defense, wizards should either get no weapon proficiency or even lower HP because they don’t train in weapon use, they only get a list of the most generic and “simple” weapons that even a monkey could use without effect.From a real world perspective (I know RL is a dirty word when discussing fantasy but…): I have received some (I am by no means an expert) training in various types of martial combat ranging from Bows and Crossbows (and Firearms), Classical Fencing, Kendo, medieval weapon fighting (swords, maces, shields – SCA style), quarterstaffs/bo-stick, and some Aikydo (and even worn Flack Jackets).  The one thing in common to all but 1 of these styles (Aikydo), is that the first thing I learned was how to wear the appropriate protection. In Aikydo it is because only the advanced students learn the use of a Katana after learning all of the defenses of the style. Even the lowliest person who takes up a weapon to train in is going to be given, at the very least, simple padded armor. Until you become a proficient fighter, your master won’t risk serious harm by letting you fight without protection, even when training with wooden swords. In melee weapon martial training defense is just as much part of the training as the weapon use itself.Again however, I would like to hear more points of view on this.  While I understand the concept of simplicity for the broadness of the reader base, why do you say the Spell Path concept is so complex? Do people really have that much difficulty with making choices or do they have to have everything cookie-cutter?I have some questions here.* If I am reading this correctly, you want the Innate Ability linked to the Spell Path and would be specifically defined for that spell path?  For example a Dragon Spell Path Sorcerer would at 7th level gain a specifically defined 1st level spell-like ability (such as endure elements). The player would get no choice in what the Innate Ability was?* What kind of bonus language would you give to a sorcerer with no defined heritage? A spell path that is meant to be “generic”?* Why no bonus spell known at 0-Level? Curious.Any other reason than the fact that Cleric domains don’t have a 0-level spell? Just FYI - The Arcane Domains from Unearthed Arcana do include 0-level spells.Lets see, the best place to start is use something from WotC so… Generic Sorcerer would use the Arcane Domains from Unearthed Arcana (13): Abjuration, Antimagic, Battle, Cold*, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Fire*, Illusion, Necromancy, Storm*, TransmutationHeredity Sorcerer would use the Heritage Domains (12): Children of Magic (Dragon, Celestial, Fiend, Shapeshifter, Storm Giant), Child of Nature, Child of the Elements (Air, Earth, Fire, Water), Divine Receptacle, Sorcerous FamilyThat would be 25 choices core, with the groundwork for any others to be added later (same as with Cleric Domains). Hows that?  Maybe remove Fire and Cold from the Generic and use them for Fire and Water? Remove Storm and give that to the Storm Giant? That would drop it to 22 choices.Lets look at the 1st 10 levels giving the 1st spell to highest slot, then the 2nd spell to the next lower spell…1st: 6+d, 2+d2nd: 7+d, 3+d3rd: 8+d, 4+d4th: 8+d, 5+d, 1+d5th: 8+d, 6+d, 2+d6th: 8+d, 6+d, 3+d, 1+d7th: 8+d, 6+d, 4+d, 2+d8th: 8+d, 6+d, 4+d, 3+d, 1+d9th: 8+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d, 2+d10th: 8+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d, 3+d, 1+dNow lets look at the 1st 10 levels giving the 2 new spell to highest slot. This is very limiting and I doubt most would choose to do it but it will lead to a more balanced number of spells known.1st: 6+d, 2+d2nd: 6+d, 4+d3rd: 6+d, 6+d4th: 6+d, 6+d, 2+d5th: 6+d, 6+d, 4+d6th: 6+d, 6+d, 4+d, 2+d7th: 6+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d8th: 6+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d, 2+d9th: 6+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d, 4+d10th: 6+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d, 4+d, 2+dSo it comes down to the difference of 2 less known Cantrips in exchange for 1 extra known 4th level spell and 1 extra known 5th level spell at 10th level. (At maximum assuming the sorcerer didnt choose to say only take 1 5th level spell and say another 3rd level.) 10th: 8+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d, 3+d, 1+d10th: 6+d, 6+d, 4+d, 4+d, 4+d, 2+dWhat do people think? Is the restriction important enough to add to the rule?Thoughts, comments?</blockquote>

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