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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1384268" data-attributes="member: 2167">MASS REPLY 4Doing this fast to squeeze in under the 6pm shutdown.From HalmaThanks for all that. Helps to know I am doing something worthwhile to others than myself and that I am not the only one that feels the core sorcerer is underpowered.   My original poll gave me the incentive to once again tackle this project with the hope that this time around people wouldn’t be sick to death of the Alt.Core threads that pervaded the boards a year or so ago. I have also been following this thread:<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77628&page=1&pp=25" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77628&page=1&pp=25</a>Which has a Wide range of beliefs on the class, but I would say that it falls into the same rough 50/50 as my original poll. It’s a great read though to see people’s thought processes and strategies with the class, especially when comparing to the Wizard.The ability as defined by the Monk is an (Ex) Extraordinary ability.  Per the SRD…”Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical. They are, however, not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities.”In other words, once your “Type” changes it cant be turned on and off.Only 2 “Examples” so far.  I am working on the others and still need lineage abilities for most of them.  Ideas??  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />This is a good question. It was limited because those expressing opinion felt it too powerful to be used on all of their spells. I “personally” disagree, and would allow it on all of the sorcerer’s spells (and I may yet revise it that way). Logic? It is designed to be relatively equal in power to Turn Undead.  However it falls short currently. It is limited in use to only the Lineage Spells. Granted Turn is limited to Undead, however with the choice of a single feat the Turn ability can be changed into a much more wide use ability (see the “Divine Feat” series of feats). Turn can also be used 3+CHA times per day, we trimmed the virtual feat to just CHA per day.Thoughts?Would love it.Thanks for the input Essex. On the Part 1 of the thread Vrylakos posted it:<a href="http://members.tripod.com/vrylakos/...main_system.htm" target="_blank">http://members.tripod.com/vrylakos/...main_system.htm</a>personally I am not too sure on many of them as viable such as how does a ghost sire a child? But that’s just me. This is a great source for people to use to show the other types of things they can come up with on their own. Remember, the basic idea is to make the system similar to Domains in function if not form, so they are easily copied and mimicked with any other choices people wish to create.That’s a great sign. May be hard to balance as some “flavors” are bent toward certain functions. Not too many “utility” fire spells. The elements will lean toward offense as an Evoker would. While shifters will be more about guile and deceipt.Excellent. Seems to be the general stance on it.Its an interesting idea and I have thought of this. I’m not sure I want to force them all into this mold for the core though. I MAY use this basic concept and combine it with the “Item Familiar” from Unearthed Arcana for one of the heredities.  This actually falls more to the purview  of the “advanced” rule set (2nd build). Unfortunately this starts pushing us back more toward a “mutable” selection of “possible” class ability choices.  We’ll look at that once we have a core to work form.I’m still toying with that. Not sure on it since they will all be basically acquiring detect magic at will.Balance wise?Ideas for the other lineages?Some good ideas I will look at as I get to the 2 classes. Nature (Druid Spell list) already delays healing spells. As for the Divine Receptacle, I am leaning toward giving them the ability to learn any spell that their deity offers as a domain spell. This in itself will limit who has access to healing since not that many deities grant the healing domain. Yeah I love the Gypsy too. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I’ll keep thinking on the Gypsy power. I don’t want to cross into “Witch” territories. In my personal view, this incarnation is based on the Mid-European caravan gypsies. Basically Rogue/Bardish and Seers/Fortune Tellers. “Witch” has a whole different connotation. (To discuss later – maybe make that a lineage as well??)Not really that wow. If you look at the level the SR is gained, its not that difficult to overcome. It basically helps the sorcerer “ignore” those wannabe punk casters (ie really low level casters) that decide to try their “special” on him.That was kind of the idea… <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />However, again, compare the SR level to a Penetrate Roll at that level. Really not that hard to overcome by an equal foe.Remember, I want to keep this close to 10 abilities for class ability balance and you already want to add in the 0-level Spell-Like again. Also keep in mind that though the abilities spread out at higher levels the Spellcasting ability of the sorcerer is coming into full power at these levels.Glad it helped!Yes I know this. That’s why I said it’s the ONLY way to “detain” a sorcerer from use of them.True but I am following the form of the text from the core write-up. Spell swapping is nothing new. I have just amended the option to include one more thing. Its really not a full class ability, but merely an addition to the spell swap rule.To a point. Finding lingering magic and spells in place is pretty tough (DC15+spell level) per aura. Also keep in mind detect magic is able to be made permanent. However – this argument is exactly why I took away the 0-Level Spell-Like ability. What would you replace it with? Remember the focus of 10 class abilities, and the 0-level spell-like doesn’t cut it. It should be on par with other class abilities of that Class Level.Good point. Will do that. I can clip that from the SRD easily enough.Problem here is backpedaling. We finally give the sorcerer a wee bit more flexibility just to turn around and take it away again. As for the 2 ways, only spell swap really counts for the most part. The spell-paths are very limited. Will think on this…Only problem I have with that is I want to keep to relatively known mechanics. The DR is a function of being an Outsider. Since that is what you are turning into – that’s what you get. Otherwise you have to determine and define a new “Type” that doesn’t exist in the MM.We shall see when the final version pans out. Keep in mind – the power balance is never going to make everyone happy. There WERE 52% who think the sorcerer is perfect as-is…Hope to hear more from all of you on Monday! Good Weekend All!</blockquote>

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