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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1389552" data-attributes="member: 2167">Ok, now that I have more time to look at this (I was on the way to bed earlier)…  There is a major problem with the math here. 1)    You are counting the spell like ability “Uses per Day” as Known Spells. 2)    You are also counting a Class Ability as a Known Spell.  Evil Eye (see Hexblade Curse) does not count toward spells known.Can’t do that.  Known Spells and Spells per Day are two different tables. Class Abilities are not Known Spells either, especially as Evil Eye is "Supernatural" not "Spell-Like". If you count Just the actual spells known, and the Spell-Like Abilities as truly Known Spells its only:Base (8) + 2/level = 30 spells known (versus the base 29)+ 7 Lineage spells (1/spell level)+ 2 Spell-Like abilities (Charm and Thoughts, as she already knows Detect Magic - you cant count it as a known spell twice) Total = 39 spells known (10 over core)However, perhaps when the spell-like evolves it cannot be replaced with another spell known. It just simply becomes innate. That would drop the spells known at 12th to:Base (8) + 2/level = 30 spells known (versus the base 29)+ 7 Lineage spells (1/spell level)Total = 37 spells known (8 over core)Another idea is drop the 0-level spells at 1st level from 6 to 4. This would drop the maximum Cantrips known (in most cases) to 6, and would drop the spells known at 12th to:Base (6) + 2/level = 28 spells known (one Under the base 29)+ 7 Lineage spells (1/spell level)Total = 35 spells known (6 over core)As I clarified above, the 2 known spells per level is not a big boost. It only nets 3 more spells known over 20 levels versus the Core sorcerer, but it allows more flexibility. I personally hate being forced to learn spells from a spell level I don’t want. Say for example the only 5th level spell I really want is Teleport. Why should I be forced to take another 5th level spell when I can instead to choose another 3rd level spell? So that’s a 3 over core from the base rule, then there is the additional 10 spells gained from the lineage spells, designed to add a tad more flexibility but to also enforce a theme. This brings the net gain up to 13 spells more than the Core sorcerer by 20th level. If we also drop the base Cantrips by 2 known this would bring it to only 11 more spells known than core sorcerer by 20th level.I don’t see that as unbalanced, only slightly more flexible.This gets for lack of a better word – clunky. It also removes 2/3 of the purpose of the lineage spells and the 2/level gain.The core argument that most people have is that the sorcerer does not have enough flexibility in their spells known. By doing your above suggestion you are limiting them even more by telling them they HAVE to spend a precious spell-known slot on a spell they may not want or that due to its theme has very limited uses.  The idea behind the lineage spells, as noted before is this:1)    Grant more flexibility by granting a controlled number of more spells known.2)    Make those bonus spells known fit a theme.3)    Simplify the spell acquisition from the random number of spells gained per level to a uniform number.The other problem would be that the entire spell known table would have to be re-manufactured to something like that looks more like the cleric table.1…..3+L…..1+L2…..4+L…..1+L3…..4+L…..2+L4…..5+L…..2+L…..LIts just too much to have to re-write the table when the mechanic can be made a) easier and b) more flexible at the limited gain of 3 spells known over 20 levels.Standard spell swapping and Spell Path Evolution can remain, but the more I look at it, the more I agree with a previous post in that I am not sure they should get a replacement spell known when their lineage spells evolve into a Spell-Like Ability. They should lose the spell-known as a cost to gain it as a spell-like ability which is a fair cost exchange. Lose it as a spell known and lose the spell known slot to gain it as a spell-like ability useable X times per day like any other class’s spell-like abilities.As I said, if you follow the logic behind the HD assignations, d6 is the one that makes most sense. All of the classes PC and DMG give a d6 HD as the base “normal” HD for a non-combat heavy class. Only Wizards and Commoners (should be named peasants, since most commoners are actually experts as it is the tradesman class) should have a d4.I think the skill list is fine. It gives the class something to fall back on.  On a specifically campaign/DM based opinion. I would be very unpleased with any player that says that ALL of a sorcerer’s abilities should be spells. When a sorcerer wants to negotiate an adventuring deal with the town mayor, they should be able to do so based on their skill and personality. If a sorcerer in my game tried to pull the shenanigans of “Charming” the mayor to do this… the party would be in quite deep cow pancakes…Personally, JMHO, I don’t like swapping one material component rule for a more complex one. If someone doesn’t like Eschew Material, just use the standard material components. Personally, I don’t see an issue with Eschew Materials. It only ignores materials that are worth less than 1gp. In effect, all Eschew Materials does is lets the sorcerer avoid having to buy and carry a Spell Component Pouch (5gp, 2lb.).“Spell Component Pouch: A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.”Also, to answer your question, from the Handbook the only Wizard spells with over 1gp are these:1st: Identify2nd: Arcane Lock, Continual Flame, Leomund’s Trap, Magic Mouth3rd: Illusory Script, Nondetection, Sepia Snake Sigil4th: Animate Dead, Arcane Eye, Fire Trap, Scrying, Stoneskin5th: False Vision, Magic Jar, Symbol of Pain, Symbol of Sleep6th: Analyze Dweomer, Circle of Death, Contingency, Create Undead, Legend Lore, Repulsion, Symbol of Fear, Symbol of Persuasion, Tenser’s Transformation, True Seeing, Undeath to Death, Wall of Iron7th: Drawmij’s Instant Summons, Forcecage, Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion, Mordenkainen’s Sword, Project Image, Scrying (Greater), Simulacrum, Symbol of Stunning, Symbol of Weakness, Vision8th: Binding, Clone, Protection from Spells, Symbol of Death, Symbol of Insanity, Sympathy, Temporal Stasis, Trap the Soul9th: Astral Projection, Refuge, Shapechange, Teleportation CircleI really don’t see this as that powerful of an ability. All it gives you is a maximum 90% chance (at 20th level) of Good/Bad or Both on one question. Another restriction is that it is for the immediate future (within 30 minutes). Why this is even 2nd level is beyond me. “Should we go down this path?” A minute later you get an answer “Weal and Woe”. What’s that mean? If you go down the path you face danger but a possible reward as well. Its not like the spell gives you ANY real information. This power is so limited in use, I don’t mind them using it 6 or 7 times a day if they choose to. It IS what Gypsies do after all. AuguryDivinationLevel: Clr 2Components: V, S, M, FCasting Time: 1 minuteRange: PersonalTarget: YouDuration: InstantaneousAn augury can tell you whether a particular action will bring good or bad results for you in the immediate future.The base chance for receiving a meaningful reply is 70% + 1% per caster level, to a maximum of 90%; this roll is made secretly. A question may be so straightforward that a successful result is automatic, or so vague as to have no chance of success. If the augury succeeds, you get one of four results:• Weal (if the action will probably bring good results).• Woe (for bad results).• Weal and woe (for both).• Nothing (for actions that don’t have especially good or bad results).If the spell fails, you get the “nothing” result. A cleric who gets the “nothing” result has no way to tell whether it was the consequence of a failed or successful augury.The augury can see into the future only about half an hour, so anything that might happen after that does not affect the result. Thus, the result might not take into account the long-term consequences of a contemplated action. All auguries cast by the same person about the same topic use the same dice result as the first casting.Material Component: Incense worth at least 25gp.Focus: A set of marked sticks, bones, or similar tokens of at least 25gp value.Also, on castings per day, maybe make the other spell-like abilities (Detect Magic and Lineage) a flat 3/day instead of based on Charisma modifier?And this helps a lot. Of course we all have opinions. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Thanks. As I said I will start releasing these but I wanted to make sure more of the core is set first. Don’t want too many tangents going at once.Personally I think that 2 unrelated powers doesn’t make quite as much sense from a balance point of view. People are already arguing that the class borders on overpowered, Stalker0 being one of them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Granting an iterating ability is much less powerful than offering a power that is equal to the experience level it is gained at. For example gaining Evil Eye at 8, and Improved Evil Eye at 17 is less powerful than gaining Evil Eye at 8th and then gaining an equivalent 17th level ability. This is why classes like druid, barbarian, ranger etc. build on the existing ability and iterate them in power as the class goes up in levels. As it is I compressed the Hexblade Curse from 3 class abilities into 2 to make up for the difference in the levels at which they were attained.  I also like the idea of their being one defining low end ability for each of the lineages, and one defining high end ability. The High level power should be at 20th and is currently still Perfect Self as I have yet to see or find anything better. That’s JMHO.I would like to see some discussion on this.Thanks all. Getting much closer to being able to release the lineages for discussion.</blockquote>

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