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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1426388" data-attributes="member: 2167">MASS REPLYTo get us back on track…Celestial & Fiendish Lineage benefits change.Benefit: Celestial sorcerers gain Knowledge (Religion and Planes) as a class skills as well as gaining Celestial as a bonus language. Celestial sorcerers cast their lineage spells at +1 caster level. A number of times per day equal to 3+ their Charisma modifier the celestial sorcerer may also cast any spell they know at +1 caster level. This bonus can be stacked to make a lineage spell cast at +2 caster levels. Celestial sorcerers may learn any spell with the Light or Good descriptor as well as any spell from the Good cleric domain.Benefit: Fiendish sorcerers gain +2 bonus on all Intimidate skill checks as well as gaining either Abyssal or Infernal as a bonus language. Fiendish sorcerers cast their lineage spells at +1 caster level. A number of times per day equal to 3+ their Charisma modifier the fiendish sorcerer may also cast any spell they know at +1 caster level. This bonus can be stacked to make a lineage spell cast at +2 caster levels. Fiendish sorcerers may learn any spell with the Darkness or Evil descriptor as well as any spell from the Evil cleric domain.Reminder:Celestial Lineage Spell List: 0–light; 1st-bless; 2nd-consecrate; 3rd-searing light; 4th-lesser planar ally; 5th-true seeing; 6th-planar ally; 7th-holy word; 8th-holy aura; 9th-gateFiendish Lineage Spell List: 0–touch of fatigue; 1st-bane; 2nd-desecrate; 3rd-ray of exhaustion; 4th-fire shield; 5th-righteous might; 6th-eyebite; 7th-blasphemy; 8th-unholy aura; 9th-gateThe only problem here is that the core system as it is used (not necessarily designed) breaks this with the introduction of PrC’s. It appears from the these boards that 90% of the people use PrCs extensively. As such 99% of the Spellcaster Oriented PrCs out there give both exceptional abilities as well as a continued +1 Level Caster Ability gain.  The idea with this build is to create a class that has an incentive to stay in the class to 20th level to get its abilities instead of bailing out to a PrC at the first available moment. To do that, the class must have something worth achieving at higher levels.Then what would you suggest? The abilities classically given to the Draconic (PrC, Bloodline, Template, etc.) are:•    Draconic Vision (Darkvision & Lowlight) – currently given at 20th•    Natural Armor (+4) – currently given at 20th•    Breath Weapon – currently given at 20th•    Immunities (Breath Energy Type) – currently given at 20th•    Immunities (Sleep & Paralysis) – currently given at 20th•    Natural Weapons (Claw & Bite)•    Increased Hit Dice•    Stat Increases (Strength, Constitution, Intelligence & Charisma)•    Flight•    Energy ResistanceI have tried to break from the mold by giving them the Fear/Frightful Presence to make them unique from the Half-Dragon/Dragon Disciple. The rest were held off until 20th level to give an incentive to attain 20th level.The remainders do not off much in the way of a 1st level class ability. Core classes do not give Stat Increases nor change Hit Dice. I really don’t want to give them the natural weapons, definitely not wings, and energy resistance might work but it falls in the same ballpark as the saving throws to magic.The only other idea I have is to alter the benefit from the Unknown Lineage  as follows. The only issue that I have is that it is not a Core Feat.Benefit: Draconic sorcerers gain +2 bonus on all Intimidate skill checks as well as gaining Draconic as a bonus language. They also gain the ability to use Energy Substitution as Spontaneous Metamagic. This metamagic feat is a virtual feat that may be used “on-the fly” to effect any spell the sorcerer knows, a number of times per day equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier but may only be used to substitute the energy type of the sorcerer’s draconic lineage (if the dragon has more than one, choose one at 1st level). This feat is used without prior preparation, increased spell level or extended casting time. A caster can apply more than one metamagic feat to a spell, if they have access to any other metamagic feats. To determine the maximum level of spell that can be so affected, add together the spell level adjustments given for the various feats (energy substitution is a +0 spell level metamagic feat). Draconic sorcerers may learn any spell with the energy designator of the breath weapon of their draconic lineage regardless of the spell list from which they come from (if that dragon has more than one breath weapon the draconic sorcerer chooses one at 1st level, this must be the same energy type chosen for their Spontaneous Energy Substitution).Thoughts?PS: Replies to Spell Weaving are on that indicated thread.</blockquote>

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