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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1479020" data-attributes="member: 2167">Thanks for the input and comments. I thought this was a dead thread.As for the Child of Nature…Let me start with spell access. The logic of receiving all Druid spells is primarily due to simplicity. I did not want to get into a long list of approved spells.  The second issue is that everyone keeps saying how much weaker divine spells are than arcane, and that druid spells are generally even weaker than cleric spells. The problem I have with Plant and Animal spells only is – well basically - they suck to be blunt about it. These spells are basically worthless to a sorcerer for anything other than flavor. The sorcerer is hard pressed enough as it is to pick decent spells.  However with that said, a Child of Nature should have a druidic flair, as they are a “divinely” inspired sorcerer – gaining their power as a grant from some higher power. Thus I also have no issue with them getting limited access to healing. Druids do not have healing at as good a rate as clerics to begin with, and if the sorcerer wants to burn their spells known to be a secondary healer, I don’t have an issue with it.  The other issue with the spells is that the nature sorcerer should have access to spells like Shillelagh, Longstrider, Commune with Nature, Call Lightning, Flamestrike etc. These are far more fitting to the sorcerous nature of the class as divine agents of nature’s wrath. To gain access to all the summoning, conjuration, transformation, elemental, etc. spells that the core concept should have access to, the only way is to allow the whole Druid list.  Keep in mind – the sorcerer’s limited spells known is the primary limiting factor here. Honestly, how many people are going to choose the overall weaker Druid spells over arcane spells? As an example – would you take Call Lightning or Lightning Bolt?  For the most part the druid spells add a variant form of utility spells.Now as for Overall Balance issues with class abilities I don’t really see any issues.Nature Sorcerer Abilities1: Woodland Stride, Trackless Step2: Detect Magic (Cha mod/day)5: Summon Nature’s Ally I (Cha mod/day)8: Wild Shape (Small-Medium; Cha mod/day)11: Summon Nature’s Ally II (Cha mod/day)14: Wild Shape (Small-Large; Cha mod/day)17: Summon Nature’s Ally III (Cha mod/day)20: Outsider = Darkvision, Low-Light Vision, DR 10/cold iron, Immunity-Fey MagicDruid Abilities1: Animal Companion, Nature Sense, Wild Empathy2: Woodland Stride3: Trackless Step4: Resist Nature’s Lure5: Wild Shape (Small-Medium; 1/day)6: Wild Shape (Small-Medium; 2/day)7: Wild Shape (Small-Medium; 3/day)8: Wild Shape (Small-Large; 3/day)9: Venom Immunity10: Wild Shape (Small-Large; 4/day)11: Wild Shape (Tiny-Large; 4/day)12: Wild Shape (Tiny-Large; Plant; 4/day)13: Thousand Faces14: Wild Shape (Tiny-Large; Plant; 5/day)15: Timeless Body, Wild Shape (Tiny-Huge; Plant; 5/day)16: Wild Shape (Tiny-Huge; Plant; 5/day), Elemental Shape (Small-Large; 1/day)18: Wild Shape (Tiny-Huge; Plant; 6/day), Elemental Shape (Small-Large; 2/day)20: Wild Shape (Tiny-Huge; Plant; 6/day), Elemental Shape (Small-Huge; 3/day)Sorcerer Spells:..6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6Druid Spells:…..6/5/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/4Yes, the Sorcerer gets Woodland Stride and Trackless step before a Druid, however the rest of the Druid’s abilities outshine the sorcerer’s as they should since the sorcerer gets more spells. I don’t see that getting two core nature avenger abilities at 1st as unbalanced compared to what else a druid gets.The druids Animal Companions easily equal if not surpasses the sorcerer’s Innate Summon Nature’s Ally spells which have limited duration and limited power in comparison to a Companion. A nature sorcerer’s Wild Shape is at best Small-Large Animal Cha mod/day compared to the druid’s Tiny-Huge Animal or Plant 6/day, and Small-Huge Elemental 3/day + Thousand Faces.  For a sorcerer to get 9 wild shapes per day would require a Charisma of 28 (and that doesn’t even count the druid’s alter self at will). The sorcerers Outsider ability (gained at 20th) is easily balanced with (if not surpassed by) a druid’s pre-20 abilities: Nature Sense, Wild Empathy, Resist Nature’s Lure, Venom Immunity and Timeless Body.Combined with the hefty restrictions on the nature sorcerer, I honestly think they are pretty well balanced. They get just enough druid-like ability to make them feel “druidy” but nowhere near enough to make then an equal to the druid’s niche.Thoughts?</blockquote>

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