Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1492171" data-attributes="member: 2167">Hey all. Sorry I haven’t posted in a while, but I usually rely on the automated email system to let me know if someone has posted rather than coming to the boards, but for some reason none of the last 4 responses have triggered an email notification. Oh well… on with the replies.First – Thanks for all the compliments. It is not just my idea, but a conglomerate of many people’s ideas and input. It is a far cry from where I started the class all those months back. Thanks to everyone for their continued support of the project.Replies… As for a link, there are a few too many to list. The thread has been so long that going back to dig out all of the references would be difficult at best. It has been discussed. Some were for, some were against, but in general it was felt to be a decent balance as an inspiration to stay in the class, especially when weighed against the alternative PrC options.  As for other classes, only the Monk gives a similar benefit (from the core classes), though various PrC’s do as well.  This solution may not be the best alternative, but it is one I find attractive and at least makes a player “think about it” before dumping levels in sorcerer to another class.In the end there is NO way to really inspire a class to remain single class until 20th level. Not with the attractiveness of PrCs and multiclassing in general. There are few who would not be better off, even with the “power level” of the 20th level transformations, NOT to take a PrC such as Incantrix, Archmage, Shadow Adept, etc.  In the end it was basically decided that in 90% of the cases where “power level” is an issue, it is a mute point anyway since the character will be Optimized using PrC’s rather than the 20th level ability.I notice in your comments below that you are weighing the class in terms of Character Optimization (ei: Power Design).  It is correct that if you are going to abandon 20th level acquisition then there are “optimal” levels to aim for with the class.  In most cases this depends on what you want out of the class and what you are “optimizing” with.Ok, lets look at the Dragon in a comparison. Most of these ideas were taken as inspiration from the Dragon Disciple PrC, but with the physical transformations (wings & natural weapons) removed for aesthetics purposes. I personally don’t like the “gross” (as in largely obvious) physical transformations in a class ability.  It was also decided not to recreate the Dragon Disciple exactly, instead giving it something a bit different yet still distinctly draconic (thus the fear aura).  As far as the LA, the Dragon Disciple as presented in the DMG/SRD shows the logic and validity of assigning a template without the LA as a class ability, and in my version, I don’t even grant the Flight, Blindsense, Natural Weapons, D12 HD, Bonus Spells, and Ability Score increases that the Dragon Disciple does.  As much as I HATE to admit it, a Draconic Sorcerer is still actually almost better off taking 10 levels of the Dragon Disciple PrC or the ½-Dragon Template and burning those Sorcerer levels rather than attaining 20th level. This in and of itself makes it balanced in that 20th level in sorcerer is still the lesser option.  Draconic Lineage: At 20th level, a draconic sorcerer gains the following benefits.•    Gains the Dragon Type (Augmented Subtype) = No longer affected by “Humanoid” spells such as Charm Person, Enlarge Person, etc..•    Darkvision out to 60’ and Low-Light Vision.•    Gains a +4 natural armor bonus.•    Gains a Breath Weapon usable once per day that deals 6d8 points of damage (Ref DC 10 + 1/2 the sorcerer’s HD + the sorcerer’s Constitution modifier).•    Gains Immunity to magical sleep effects and paralysis effects and to one energy type based on lineage. (Black, Copper & Green = Acid; Blue & Bronze = Electricity; Brass, Gold & Red = Fire; Silver & White = Cold)Half-Dragon Template (per SRD)As Draconic Lineage… PLUS•    Natural Weapons: 2 Claws (Primary) + Bite (Secondary) allowing an attack routine of 3 Attacks at any level at +0/+0/-5 modifiers; Can also use standard weapon attack with a free secondary Claw and Bite attacks at -5 penalties on the claw/bite.•    Ability Increases: Strength +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2•    If Large: Gains Wings = Fly speed at double land speed)Dragon Disciple (per SRD)Dragon Apotheosis: At 10th level - acquires the Half-Dragon Template... PLUS•    Bonus Spells•    Wings – Regardless of Original Size•    Blindsense•    10D12 HDAfter much discussion on the topic of Familiars it was determined that one of the big issues most people have with the sorcerer is the familiar.  Firstly, familiars are a long lost hold over to fantasy wizards due to Shakespeare and other such classic representations of the “Witch and her black cat”. It was also determined that the familiar for the most part (with the exception of certain lineages) should remain a boon to the wizard if for no other reason than by following the flavor text, sorcerers are not educated in the necessary arcane rituals needed to summon a familiar. Thus familiars were dropped for the most part.The system of design for this class was originally and specifically designed to allow for the new creation of lineages, similar to the template class designs by Monte Cook: the Witch, Champion and Totem Warrior.Living Constructs… hmmm. Sounds a bit like the Warforged from Eberron. Not sure you could do much with this as a lineage however…The first things you have to ask are: What is it to be of a Construct Lineage?What or who is the progenitor (how did they come to exist)?Are the sorcerers actually constructs or are they just descendents of a clone? If the remains of a clone – they wouldn’t really be constructs…Are they magical experiments, or a cloning gone wrong? (Think Alias from Azure Bonds)What makes them unique?What properties do they have?What magical affinities do they have?What skill affinities fit the lineage?As a base line from the SRD we have:Construct Type: A construct is an animated object or artificially constructed creature.Traits: A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).—No Constitution score.—Low-light vision.—Darkvision out to 60 feet.—Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).—Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease , death effects, and necromancy effects.—Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.—Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.—Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).—Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.—Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.—Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the following table (Small 10, Medium 20, Large 30)—Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.—Proficient with no armor.—Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.However since it needs to be “Living” we could also look to the following as a guide:Native Subtype: A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep. Compare this with the Warforged from Eberron:Living Construct (Ex): A living construct is a subtype of construct, given sentience and free will through powerful and complex creation enchantments. A living construct is a sentient, artificially constructed creature that combines aspects of both constructs and living beings. As a living construct a warforged has the following features:-A warforged gets its HD, BAB, Saves, and Skill Points from the class it selects.-As a created life form, a warforged has a Constitution score.-A warforged only has normal vision.-As a living construct, spells that target constructs as well as those that target living creatures affect the warforged. Because of this, damage dealt can be healed by a cure light wounds spell or a repair light damage spell, and they are vulnerable to disable construct and harm. However, spells from the healing subschool provide only half effect for a warforged.-Not immune to mind-affecting spells.-Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, nausea, energy drain, fatigue and exhaustion.-Not immune to death effects or necromancy effects, except those mentioned as immunities.-0hp = disabled; -1 to -9 = inert.-Does not heal naturally (only magically).-Subject to criticals, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain.-Does not need to eat, sleep, or breath; but can benefit from consumable magic.-Can be raised or resurrected.From here – what do you see as the core of the lineage?Look forward to responses.</blockquote>

Verification