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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1508350" data-attributes="member: 2167">Thanks for the comments and input.  To address your comments…I chose to use the druid companion version as a base because they are better than the Ranger, as Rangers only use ½ their level to determine the power of their companion. The balance factor to prevent the sorcerer’s companion from overshadowing the druid’s is the fact that the druid can have more than one companion (many more due to Animal Friendship) and the druid’s never go away, unlike a sorcerer’s.  As for Pokemount – I agree that it is not fitting for the Paladin, but for a sorcerer … the ability to “summon” a companion makes much more sense and is a mechanic that could find a home with the sorcerer class – unlike the paladin whom isn’t supposed to be a highly magical class.Arcane Sense is actually weaker than I had originally wanted, and I am still not sure that it is all that great a boon – especially compared to the benefit that could be gained from something like a familiar which if used correctly are actually quite a powerful addition to a character. At the very least IMHO Arcane Sense should have been an at-will ability, but too many people said that it was too powerful to allow Detect Magic at will.Ok. I am a little confused and could use some clarification. Basically you are saying you made an alternate version of the Child of Nature? •    If you swore off the Summoning spells – what is the Lineage Spell list?  Why sworn off the summoning spells?•    Not sure where animal empathy comes in (that’s 3.0) and its not part of the lineage.•    Granted that the Druid spell list isn’t the best, but wanting to learn only Barkskin goes to prove that offering the entire list is not unbalanced as some thought it would be. It does offer many good spells – depending on the kind of character you are trying to build.•    If you moved Stride and Step to 8th – what did you give at 1st?•    What did you do with the Wild Shape? Remove it from 8th but leave at higher levels?If you just want to manipulate the Nature Sorcerer, I would put the level abilities back where they were, and simply change the spell list. (Maybe use the one below that is more reflective of a shaman.)Now if you are asking for a barbarian culture Spirit Shaman lineage, I think it would be quite different from the Child of Nature lineage.  This is what I would see working well (1st draft).ANCESTOR SPIRIT SHAMAN LINEAGE: The ancestor spirit shaman sorcerer is the descendant of a long line of shamans and holds a strong tie to those ancestors. This is similar to a Magical Family lineage but from a more savage culture.  This lineage is powerful and directly links the sorcerer to the forces of their own ancestry. Benefit: Ancestor spirit shaman sorcerers gain Listen and Survival as class skills. Their link to their ancestor spirits allow them to speak with those spirits to gleam information about the future. This acts as an augury (as the spell), a spell-like ability, usable a number of times per day equal to 3+ the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier. However, unlike other spell-like abilities, this augury still requires the use of a fortune telling medium such as bones, runes, arcane bonfire, blood etc. (but only worth 5gp) but does not require the use of incense.  Ancestor shaman sorcerers may learn any spell of the Divination designator regardless of the spell list from which it comes as well as any spell that directly harms undead or incorporeal creatures.Special Limitation: Ancestor shaman sorcerers have an innate connection to their ancestors and their culture and thus are influenced by the cultures more wild tendencies and thus they may not be of a lawful alignment and are illiterate like others of their culture, though they may spend 2 skill points at any time to become literate. They may also never learn any spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability with the Lawful designator nor that creates or controls undead. The ancestor shaman sorcerer cannot use spell completion or spell trigger items that activate banned spells, as they just do not work for the sorcerer. Due to their strong affinity to magic of the spirit world, they are left with a natural weakness toward magic of necromantic origin, receiving a –2 penalty to all saving throws against any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability of the necromancy school or used by creatures of the undead type. An ancestor shaman sorcerer who becomes of any lawful alignment or learns a prohibited spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability may no longer gain levels as a sorcerer as well as loses all sorcerer lineage abilities (including lineage bonus known spells and spell-like abilities, but not including weapon proficiencies and normal spells known), until they atone (see the atonement spell description). Also, like a member of any other class, an ancestor shaman sorcerer may be a multiclass character, but they face a special restriction. An ancestor shaman sorcerer who gains a new class or template that involves racial or bloodline or heredity related abilities that are not specifically spirit oriented (for example Half-Dragon), may never again raise their sorcerer level and loses all sorcerer lineage abilities (including their bonus spells known and lineage based spell-like abilities, but not including weapon proficiencies and standard spells known).Lineage Spells: The sorcerer has a specific affinity with their ancestor spirits and the magic they wield that manifests in a Lineage Spell List. These lineage spells may never be changed through spell swapping or spell evolution, but only through Innate Ability evolution. These lineage spells are gained as bonus known spells as soon as the sorcerer is able to cast spells of that spell level. The sorcerer gains the Ancestor Spirit Shaman Lineage spell list.Ancestor Spirit Shaman Lineage Spell List: 0–know direction; 1st-sanctuary; 2nd- shield other; 3rd- speak with dead; 4th- divine power; 5th- commune; 6th- geas/quest; 7th- ethereal jaunt; 8th- word of recall; 9th- shadesLineage Abilities: The ancestor shaman sorcerer’s connection with their ancestor spirits grows over time and they become more attune to the force of the spirit world.  ……….At 8th level the abcestor shaman sorcerer gains the ability to sense spirits, incorporeal and invisible creatures within 60’ which also reduces miss chances on incorporeal and invisible creatures by 25%. They may also imbue themselves or others with the power of their ancestor spirits, enhancing any one ability score (per use of the ability) as if casting a 2nd level ability score enhancement spell such as bull’s strength. The sorcerer need not know the specific spell to duplicate its effects. The enhancement lasts 1 hour/sorcerer level. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier.……….At 14th level the ancestor shaman sorcerer gains the ability to summon an ancestral spirit from the astral plane that takes the form of a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow spirit’s alignment matches that of the sorcerer, and the creature cannot create spawn. The summoned shadow spirit cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. This shadow spirit serves as a companion to the sorcerer and can communicate intelligibly with the sorcerer. Every third level gained by the sorcerer adds +2 HD (and the requisite base attack and base save bonus increases) to their shadow spirit companion. If a shadow spirit companion is destroyed, or the sorcerer chooses to dismiss it, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If the saving throw fails, the sorcerer loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level. A successful saving throw reduces the loss by half, to 100 XP per sorcerer class level. The sorcerer’s XP total can never go below 0 as the result of a shadow spirit’s dismissal or destruction. A destroyed or dismissed shadow spirit companion cannot be replaced for 30 days.……….At 20th level, an ancestor shaman sorcerer becomes so attune to their lineage that they gain the outsider type as well as the augmented and native subtypes. The sorcerer undergoes no outward physical transformation however. They are forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the sorcerer’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the ancestor shaman sorcerer gains the following benefits.•    Darkvision out to 60’.•    An ancestor shaman sorcerer with the leadership feat, may acquire a ghost as a special cohort (with the appropriate level modified by the +5 ECL of the ghost template). This ghost is an ancestor spirit that has chosen to travel with the shaman and aid them in their endeavors. Unlike a normal ghost, this ghost’s alignment matches that of the sorcerer. The ancestor spirit cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. This ghost serves as a companion to the sorcerer and can communicate intelligibly with the sorcerer. If a ghost ancestral spirit is destroyed, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 20 Fortitude save. If the saving throw fails, the sorcerer loses 400 experience points per sorcerer level. A successful saving throw reduces the loss by half, to 200 XP per sorcerer class level. The sorcerer’s XP total can never go below 0 as the result of a ghost spirit’s destruction. A destroyed ghost spirit cannot be replaced for 1 year.•    Gain Damage Reduction (Su): Grants damage reduction 5/-, which allows them to ignore the first 5 points of damage from any attack made by a weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. •    Gain Spell Resistance (Ex): This grants spell resistance of 30.Unlike other outsiders, the sorcerer can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Also unlike other outsiders, native outsiders still need to eat and sleep.Thoughts?</blockquote>

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