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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1355192" data-attributes="member: 2167">Ok, first to answer some of the off-topic material:And that’s fair. You are more than entitled to your opinion. It does however make me curious to ask one question, and I am not flaming – I’m honestly curious to understand how people think. If you are a purist and prefer works as-is, why are you surfing the Houserules Board, a place designed to mess with the status-quo?And this is EXACTLY what I have been trying to develop… something flexible but encompassing. I wanted a class that truly embodies the ideal of the sorcerer as it is presented in the fluff but that is still balanced to the power of the other classes. I am sorry you took that stance. I always said that I liked your work, but it just wasn’t exactly the feel I was going for.  Many people will prefer your way over mine. That is the way of things and its why we have a Houserules Board to begin with.  I wanted to take your ideas a step farther – making a more versatile class using the basic ideas of the themed heredity but go with what made more logical sense to me both in the craft mechanic of the class build as well as in theory.  However, what I have done I am hoping is lose enough to allow most anything. If you really want a GHOST Sorcerer Heredity you can.Child of Mystery – Ghost: Ghost sorcerers are the descendant of a magic infusion between a ghost and one of the sorcerer’s long past relatives, or possibly the result of the sorcerer’s mother being possessed during the pregnancy, etc.Skills:•    Gain Hide and Move Silently as a class skills.Templates:•    May apply the Ghost Touch Spell Template to their spell-like abilities (Dragon #311).Special Bonuses:•    Nondescript: The ghost sorcerer is rather nondescript and is thus more able to blend into their surroundings and go unnoticed than most. This grants the sorcerer a +2 racial bonus to Bluff, Disguise, Gather Information and Hide skill checks.•    Chill Touch (Su): The ghost sorcerer may use a ghostly chill touch as the spell, at their Sorcerer class level a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier.•    Bonus Known: The ghost sorcerer gains the Ghostly Spell Path as one bonus spell-like ability per spell level.0: Ghost Sound..........5: Magic Jar1: Cause Fear............6: Eyebite2: Scare...................7: Ethereal Jaunt3: Gaseous Form........8: Horrid Wilting4: Fear.....................9: Wail of the BansheeThematics:•    Ghost sorcerers become slightly ethereal in appearance, the sound of moans and clanking chains and emanate the feel of a bone chilling cold when they use their spell-like abilities.Restrictions:•    May never learn any spell-like ability, nor use any item that activates a spell or spell-like ability with the Good or Light descriptor or that belongs to the Good or Sun Domain.•    May not take any Prestige Class or Template that involves racial or heritage abilities unless they are specifically undead oriented. Example: Cannot take the Celestial Template.•    Must be of any Non-Good Alignment.•    May not choose their Ghostly Spell Path as a Spell List Restriction.Some possible Sorcerer Abilities:Child of Mystery – Ghost: Abundant Step, Arcane Soul, Flight, Ghost Touch, Incorporeal, Invisibility, Power over Undead, Spirit Guide. First – Thanks for the complimentSecond – Yes this version is radical, and that is the point. I am personally tired of the core system and purists being too afraid of “radical” and thus producing boring, bland and cookie cutter classes.  The Ranger and Monk were both steps in the right direction. They went from classes that fit one cookie cutter view of the class and at least went to a Class Option system, allowing for 2 paths for the classes to follow.  In the system I am working on, the sorcerer being a prime example, is one that allows for a much wider range of archetypes without the need for customizing the class on the fly every time you want to change the archetypes available to the class. The sorcerer is supposed to be a Unique class with unique abilities, not merely a Wizard that casts differently.  The sorcerer should be as to the wizard, as the druid is to the cleric, or the ranger is to the fighter. The basic premise is the same – its an arcane spellhurler. The rest of the class should share nothing in common.Dragon and the zillion 3rd party books have show dozens of ways to customize the core classes to fit an archetype. Many just simply write new base classes that are variants of the original classes to fill a new nitch like an urban ranger or druid.  However – why cant the core class just be made to be flexible to start with?  Why do all rogues get Sneak Attack and Trap Sense? What if I want to make a professional beggar or charlatan? There are much better abilities to be used for this archetype and no logical reason a charlatan would be proficient in traps and sneak attacks.As for the class powers… this is why I am seeking constructive criticism on the power ranges for the class. Keep in mind that there is little out of the stretch of existing classes, except for some of the more purely racial abilities like Flight and Invisibility.Again – all constructive help on balancing the abilities is appreciated.On a side note – I also think I have placed my finger on what is still feeling unfinished… SPELLSWhile currently I use the Forgotten Heroes – Sorcerer system to ALLOW for restricted spell lists, this does not sit well with me. I want the Sorcerer spell list more restricted.  The question is how to do this?  Currently the spell list is limited by removing any spell with a Material Component or Focus of a value higher than 1gp, and by Heredity restrictions such as banning spells of a specific descriptor or domain list.  I still do not feel that this limits the spell lists enough.There should be SOME way of denoting what is and isn’t an appropriate sorcerer spell. This is what I think I need the most help determining.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to limit the spell lists? Should I designate specific themes? Or should I modify the FH-S system to FORCE a player into choosing small thematic spell lists?</blockquote>

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