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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sonofapreacherman" data-source="post: 1372191" data-attributes="member: 2315">Nonsense. Virtually every other spellcasting class has the potential to cast every spell on their list. What they aren't casting now, they are studying for later. That foreknowledge is what allows them to spell trigger magic items based on spells from their respective lists. In the case of clerics, druids, and wizards, the groundwork for "all" spells has already been laid. That foreknowledge "must" exist on a conceptual game design level, because otherwise every heroic spellcasting class would be in school more often than they would be adventuring. The sorcerer cannot equal that potential, possessing no foreknowledge at all.Which brings us to bards. I had originally placed that same restriction on bards, until I thought better on it. While bards will eventually hit a ceiling of spells as well, they are a wealth of knowledge without even taking a single rank of any Knowledge skill. Once again, that studied foreknowledge outshines the intuitive understanding of sorcerers, and allows bards to spell trigger any spell on their list.Right on both counts. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And that's where you lose me (any time you justify game mechanics with flavor text). Even though you now acknowledge that the flavor text may have been written for an earlier incarnation of the sorcerer that never saw print, you keep doing it. I'm sorry, but unless you base such arguments on actual game mechanics, they hold no empirical worth.Exactly. It goes against their intuitive grasp of spellcasting. Which is probably why Knowledge (arcana) is the *only* knowledge skill that appears on their list. And funny how its the only knowledge skill that could *possibly* interest them. It's there for a very good reason. Knowledge (arcana) helps round out the class in case some errant sorcerer might actually be interested in learning more about where their powers came from. (I know, it's unfathomable!) My suggestion that arcane knowledge could also be locked inside the body is only one of many feasible rationales for this class skill.This is better known as throwing the baby out with the bath water. Because of one skill, you deny the devoted sorcerer early access to a host of prestige class options. Not very far sighted.That's not a contradiction. That's supply and demand. If the sorcerer cannot "spell trigger" certain magic items themselves (demand), then a few Use Magic Device ranks might make it possible (supply). But I think everybody knows by now that a few points of Use Magic Device won't do the trick. You need to sink a lot of ranks into that skill before you start getting meaningful returns. But I will say this for it. There is no skill more clearly based on magical intuition.And once again, that is by design (see above). You see, I'm not one of those dungeon masters who exerts too much control over their players. I try to exert just enough so that they can enjoy themselves while also feeling like there are checks and balances in place for when they go too far.No. I just think 3 spells is a quibble. Not to mention a tell-tail sign that changes are being made strictly for the purpose of making changes.I didn't think I would be explaining this to you of all people.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />Despite the ability to cast spells spontaneously, the printed sorcerer is the weakest core character class. Giving them access to higher-level spells at the same time as wizards (and druids and clerics for that matter) does not unbalance sorcerers. It "begins" to balance them. I didn't agree with Wizards of the Coast that sorcerer spellcasting was staggered back a level for "balance reasons" when they first made that assertion, anymore than I do now. I'm surprised you do. A sorcerer who casts higher level spells at the same time as all the other core classes still cannot hold a torch to a well prepared wizard (when it comes to spell power and utility). And that's without even burning a single spell from their reservoir of Spells per Day.Man you switch tracks when it suits you. Now the sorcerer isn't balanced against the other spellcasters again?If the sorcerer can improvise components, link thematic spells, cast specifically chosen spell-like abilities, create themes between their spells, etc., etc., then that is enough. Your list of additional sorcerer abilities (after all that) is what I object to. Abilities that the sorcerer spells themselves should be facilitating.Moreover, your method of counting abilities is flawed. Not all class abilities are created equal. Therefore adding them up is pointless. Why does that even have to be said?No, rather than relying on "averages" to be the saving grace if this sorcerer, you have to do the hard work of examining all of the class abilities in contrast to each other, during playtesting. There are no short cuts.</blockquote>

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