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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9140814" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Half the sorcerer subclasses don't have spells to add. That's the problem. Every single warlock subclass does have spells to add. So, yeah, I'd love to add the subclass spells from Draconic and Wild sorcerers. Can we have some? And, you know, if you think the sorcerer should have more spells known than the warlock... then adding more spells to the sorcerer would seem a GREAT place to start there, don't you think?Now? That's a strange thing to say. Most of those classes had very minor increases. Wizard's had a significant jump, as did Paladins, but Druids only gained two or three spells since they had subclasses before. Bard's only had two more. Clerics got one more. So, did that one extra spell (Commune) really tip the cleric from perfectly fine to too many spells? And, um, what do you mean by the "absolute number of spells known" how is that different than my numbers?But it isn't. You've shown that in a niche situation, with a single specific spell, it lets you be cool. But is a dramatic royal rescue with a teleport REALLY overpowered compared to using Subtle Spell and Phantasmal Force to disrupt a conference and have your enemies kill each other? Is it REALLY overpowered compared to using Careful Spell on Hypnotic Pattern to capture an entire tribe of ogres to press gang into a war effort? Again, you've never even demonstrated that this teleport trick is out of line, let alone addressed that for most of the Sorcerer's career the metamagic doesn't work on teleport and instead would just be used to increase the range of a normal attack spell, and so taking it straight to being unbalanced compared to other metamagic's is a bit bizarre. I mean, the new twin spell can let a 5th level sorcerer cast a 4th level spell! No one else can do that, but... is that really out of line?Metamagic is a class feature. How else do you think we got Distant Spell on the sorcerer? You can't declare it was unintended, again, this is all based on guesswork for why it was switched back.</blockquote>

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