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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7341366" data-attributes="member: 20564">In discussions about the Sorcerer and spells known, I've before said that I wish they knew less but could do more with what they had - that they had their talents and could twist those in ways that others couldn't but wouldn't have the breadth of different types of magic.In a recent thread, [MENTION=6932123]Kinematics[/MENTION] had an idea about upcasting that I ran with in a way that would require the least changes to the system but hit my goals.  I'd love to get your help in putting it together.His idea was allowing upcasting to increase the scope of the spell instead of just some factor.  For example Disguise Self doesn't take concentration, and Alter Self can do the same things plus more, but requires concentration.  So there's use cases for both.  This made me think - what happens if you could get both?  There's a lot of overlap, so it's not worth two of your spells know, but it's in-line with Sorcerer's ability to manipulate magic if you think about it as one effect that they can realize different ways.The basic idea is that sorcerers get less spells known, but can pick chains of spells as a single (?) pick.For example, a chain of spells may be "Disguise Self, Alter Self, Polymorph, True Polymorph".  (Though I think the highest level spells might not be in chains.)Off the top of my head, I was thinking Spells Known would be half current plus one.  So a 1st level sorcerer gets the same, but a 20th level sorcerer has 8 instead of 15 - but those 8 are really about 24-32 (?) related spells in 8 categories.  The plus one helps out lower level casters, since chains will have spells they can't cast yet.I was unsure if I should do something about spells that show up on more than one chain a sorcerer has taken.  I was thinking that maybe it cost 1 less SP to apply metamagic to that spell.  (Total, not cumulative if one 3+ lists - that's likely abusable.)I am considering that if a sorcerer wants to swap when they level up, there needs to be at least one spell in common between the original and new chain.I'm going back and forth, but maybe the highest level spells shouldn't be in chains.  You can always use a pick to just pick a spell, even one from a chain you already know to get the 1 SP metamagic bonus.Here's a few spell chains, help me design others.  They should be a mix of levels but more low-level than high to mimic how spells are picked now, and not just "best in class" spells - we want to see sorcerers being able to "twist their trick" to be the best fit for a situation by presenting variations on a tight theme.Transmogrify:  Disguise Self, Alter Self, PolymorphAdapt:  Enlarge/Reduce, Protection from Energy, StoneskinEnhance:  Jump, Enhance Ability, Water BreathingObey:  Charm Person, Suggestion, Dominate PersonCommand:  Dominate Beast, Dominate Person, Dominate MonsterCower:  Fear, ??, ??Be Still:  Hold Person, Hold Monster, ??Be Fleet:  Expeditious Retreat, Haste, ??Insanity:  Crown of Madness, Confusion, ??Phantasm:  Silent Image, Hypnotic Pattern, SeemingIllusion:  Mirror Image, Phantasmal Force, Major Image(So many spells on the same theme.)Thunderstorm:  Thunderwave, Lightning Bolt, Chain LightningSnowstorm:  Gust of Wind, Sleet Storm, Ice StormCloud:  Fog Cloud, Cloudkill, ??Rays of the Sun:  Scorching Blast, Daylight, SunbeamElsewhere:  Blink, Banishment, Teleport CircleSecret Paths:  Misty Step, Dimension Door, Arcane GateLighter than Air:  Feather Fall, Levitate, Gaseous FormSkyward Bound:  Jump, Levitate, FlyArachnaphilia:  Spider Climb, Web, Insect PlagueSight Beyond Sight:  Detect Magic, Darkvision, ClairvoyanceAlter Matter:  Shatter, Knock, CreationMastery of the Word:  Comprehend Languages, Suggestion, TonguesGreater Arcana:  Detect Magic, Counterspell, Dispel MagicThis is just a sample of some chains.  Do they work for you; is three the right number?  Should they include higher level spells as well?What chains would you make?  (Repeats of spells are fine, as long as it's tightnly on theme.)</blockquote>

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