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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7536697" data-attributes="member: 6750235">I agree with the above.&nbsp; Nova power is high on sorcerers.&nbsp; It's a draw to the class.1.&nbsp; maybe2.&nbsp; maybe3.&nbsp; maybe4.&nbsp; maybe5.&nbsp; I do.6.&nbsp; probably not7.&nbsp; probably not8.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; high CHA9.&nbsp; maybe.&nbsp; Twinned haste is good, for example.There is no question that spell options are limited compared to a wizard.&nbsp; I take alter self and enhance ability (not available to wizards) as 2nd level spells to apply some utility, shield, sleep, and usually burning hands.&nbsp; Usually firebolt and 3 utility cantrips.&nbsp; That's fine at low levels.For what a lot of spells do I just rely on skills and equipment just like other classes.&nbsp; It's less of a &quot;have not&quot; and more of a &quot;have less&quot; scenario comparing utility magic to skills and equipment.&nbsp; Some people might want more but it works well for me.No, because I rely on cantrips at 3rd level, just like a wizard does.&nbsp; My 2nd level spell at 3rd level goes to utility and I continue to rely on cantrips and 1st level spells for combat.Preparing 2 more spells than the sorcerer knows doesn't allow for casting more 2nd level spell slots while choosing scalable 1st level spells known can give variety in the use of those 2nd level slots.The sorcerer doesn't have the slots to do much outside of combat but neither does the wizard.&nbsp; Slots are limited enough that spending them outside limits spending them in combat.&nbsp; More spells known does not equal more slots available.Not spending slots outside of combat does not equal not having options outside of combat.&nbsp; That gets back to skills and equipment.Yes.&nbsp; Where I disagree is the need for more offensive or defensive spells prior to this level.Wizards don't prepare many more spells than sorcerers know until they are getting into double digit levels.&nbsp; If rituals were really all that then optimizers would be promoting the feat all over the place.&nbsp; As it is, ritual caster can be replaced by a feat but metamagic cannot.&nbsp; That is because metamagic is a far more potent feature.Where issues come in is players want thematic spells at every spell level.&nbsp; That isn't possible.&nbsp; Spell mastery is also crazy good.&nbsp; Wizard's wish they could metamagic high level spells like sorcerers do, however; including the wish spell.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7536697, member: 6750235"] I agree with the above. Nova power is high on sorcerers. It's a draw to the class. 1. maybe 2. maybe 3. maybe 4. maybe 5. I do. 6. probably not 7. probably not 8. Why bother? high CHA 9. maybe. Twinned haste is good, for example. There is no question that spell options are limited compared to a wizard. I take alter self and enhance ability (not available to wizards) as 2nd level spells to apply some utility, shield, sleep, and usually burning hands. Usually firebolt and 3 utility cantrips. That's fine at low levels. For what a lot of spells do I just rely on skills and equipment just like other classes. It's less of a "have not" and more of a "have less" scenario comparing utility magic to skills and equipment. Some people might want more but it works well for me. No, because I rely on cantrips at 3rd level, just like a wizard does. My 2nd level spell at 3rd level goes to utility and I continue to rely on cantrips and 1st level spells for combat. Preparing 2 more spells than the sorcerer knows doesn't allow for casting more 2nd level spell slots while choosing scalable 1st level spells known can give variety in the use of those 2nd level slots. The sorcerer doesn't have the slots to do much outside of combat but neither does the wizard. Slots are limited enough that spending them outside limits spending them in combat. More spells known does not equal more slots available. Not spending slots outside of combat does not equal not having options outside of combat. That gets back to skills and equipment. Yes. Where I disagree is the need for more offensive or defensive spells prior to this level. Wizards don't prepare many more spells than sorcerers know until they are getting into double digit levels. If rituals were really all that then optimizers would be promoting the feat all over the place. As it is, ritual caster can be replaced by a feat but metamagic cannot. That is because metamagic is a far more potent feature. Where issues come in is players want thematic spells at every spell level. That isn't possible. Spell mastery is also crazy good. Wizard's wish they could metamagic high level spells like sorcerers do, however; including the wish spell. [/QUOTE]

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