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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kbrakke" data-source="post: 6608385" data-attributes="member: 6781797">To preface my experience with wizards, sorcerers and such is as follows: I play a Draconic Sorcerer (Level 6) and an Arcane Trickster 4 Wizard 1. I play with a Wild Magic Sorcerer(Also level 6). Additionally I DM for a Draconic Sorcerer (Level 7), and four wizards (Levels 15, 10, 4, 3).There are obvious similarities, in that both classes have the same spell progression and have similar spell lists. I think that you can create similar characters where either class can be used, but I think not embracing what makes each class different would be a disservice. In my experience the versatility of the Wizard and the sorcerer class features do make them different.I think being able to learn spells and being able to choose from this potentially comprehensive list make the wizard very different. The player considerations become very different. With the wizard, the question is "what will I run in to today?", whereas the sorcerer asks "what will I always need to do?'". Also for the wizard, I find that the schools don't set them apart hugely, at least at early levels. As they unlock more school abilities the difference is more pronounced. In either case though the wizard does feel very different to me because of the fundamental difference in spell considerations. I do think that the sorcerer metamagic and spell points make it play differently. In my past 3 adventures, sorcery points and metamagic have made a huge difference in how encounters played out. In no particular order: I was able to flee from an earth elemental with quickened fly + disengage and move. If I could not do that he would get an AOO or be able to catch me. One huge encounter was completely turned by a wild magic surge getting all sorcery points back. Our wild mage was able to make a new level 2 spell slot and cast gust of wind letting us escape. We had 5 encounters with no short rests. Making another level two spell slot in battle let me cast another very important scorching ray. And in that same set of encounters I was able to quicken fireball + firebolt to take down a mage before he could cast a second spell.In all those situations I think a wizard could have been effective, but he would have done it in a fundamentally different way. Namely he would have been able to use rituals between combats, or he could have a wider array of spells to target each encounter.I think that metamagic and sorcery points vs learning new spells and rituals is enough to fundamentally change how each class plays. You could make an INT sorcerer, it's just an Arcanist, though without learning new spells from scrolls please. DMing for one in pathfinder is very annoying.I think you can swap them back and forth easily mechanically. However I think that in play the story of the sub-class for each class will make a big enough difference. For example enchantment can easily become a fey bloodline, but being part fey and studying enchantment spells are very different character wise. Same with something like wild magic and a joker/gambling wizard school.I usually ask people questions about their fantasy backgrounds. Sometimes it's easy, they really like dragons and magic so draconic sorcerer it is. Or they love Hermionie, and so wizard it is. The main question I tend to ask is do they want their character to have studied magic, or have the magic be a part of them.As mentioned above, I think the difference comes up all the time. Every single level up with my Sorcerer has been very different than the wizards. I have to think if something I have is under performing and replace it. Wizards just get more and more. I also think the rituals vs metamagic is important. Wizards can do more different things, sorcerers can do the same thing differently.For more the same, I would just increase the number of sorcerer spells known and let them swap spells by consuming a scroll. They learn the scroll spell in place of one they already knew. This lets them more quickly adjust their spells for the immediate situations, extra known spells lets them diversify. For wizards I would give them a single metamagic and sorcery (arcane) points based on int, go to 1 spell on level up and double the costs of copying in to the spell book. This gives them a similar flexibility when casting spells, but restricts them more at early levels where gold is still a concern. You can make characters who are very similar by choosing the right backgrounds. Like a wizard urchin who had to come up with all their own spells. But I still think the in-play differences are enough to cause these characters to branch out very quickly.</blockquote>

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