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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6800871" data-attributes="member: 996">As I've pointed out before, there are Sorcery Points.&nbsp; While Spontaneous Casting was given to everybody, Meta-magic is now the Sorcerer's toy.&nbsp; And, the Sorcerer being good at meta-magic does make some sense, and mitigates some of the disadvantages of having so very few known spells.&nbsp;Ya hear this a lot.&nbsp; Without a &quot;from 3.5&quot; qualifier, it's wildly inaccurate.&nbsp; Even with it, I'm not so sure it's all that clear, significant, or across-the-board a 'dialing back.'What a colorful and politically incorrect simile.&nbsp; Accurate, though.The key to the almost-balance between the 3.5 Sorcerer &amp; Wizard was that they were each very flexible, but along different time scales.&nbsp; A Sorcerer could choose the spells he could cast at chargen &amp; level up, while the Wizard could change his selection daily.&nbsp; But, the Sorcerer could determine which of those spells he'd use his limited slots/day to cast on the fly, while the wizard had to determine how many times he'd be able to use each spell in advance - and, for every spell he wanted to cast a second time, he had to reduce the number of different spells he could cast by one.&nbsp; The Sorcerer /also/ got more spells/day.&nbsp; Yet, even so, the conventional wisdom was that the Sorcerer didn't measure up.5e took the encounter-devestating round-to-round flexibility of the 3.5 Sorcerer and /combined/ it with the campaign-devestating day-to-day flexibility of the 3.5 Wizard, and, for good measure, the at-will attacks both enjoyed in 4e, to create the neo-Vancian casting system that more than half the sub-classes in the game use.&nbsp; To add insult to injury, throwing a rock in melee is more heavily limited in 5e than casting a spell.&nbsp; In a way, the same thing that made the Sorcerer theoretically Tier-2 inferior to the Tier-1 Wizard in 3.5 was the same thing that made it a much better class design, better for build-to-concepts, more robustly-balanced, and not as many light-years away from magic-wielding characters in genre.&nbsp; Those limited number of known spells that you could add to infrequently and change little.&nbsp; It meant each Sorcerer could be distinct from the next, because they knew different spells, and define a theme/concept/identity by that combination of spells.&nbsp; Some build-to-concept optimizers created the X-men as Sorcerers, for a humorous instance.&nbsp;&nbsp; Badly as you think the Sorcerer may have been mistreated this edition (and, hey, you might not be wrong), it does retain that strength-in-its-greatest-weakness.&nbsp;&nbsp; The 5e Sorcerer could make for some very cool characters in a very memorable campaign.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6800871, member: 996"] As I've pointed out before, there are Sorcery Points. While Spontaneous Casting was given to everybody, Meta-magic is now the Sorcerer's toy. And, the Sorcerer being good at meta-magic does make some sense, and mitigates some of the disadvantages of having so very few known spells. Ya hear this a lot. Without a "from 3.5" qualifier, it's wildly inaccurate. Even with it, I'm not so sure it's all that clear, significant, or across-the-board a 'dialing back.' What a colorful and politically incorrect simile. Accurate, though. The key to the almost-balance between the 3.5 Sorcerer & Wizard was that they were each very flexible, but along different time scales. A Sorcerer could choose the spells he could cast at chargen & level up, while the Wizard could change his selection daily. But, the Sorcerer could determine which of those spells he'd use his limited slots/day to cast on the fly, while the wizard had to determine how many times he'd be able to use each spell in advance - and, for every spell he wanted to cast a second time, he had to reduce the number of different spells he could cast by one. The Sorcerer /also/ got more spells/day. Yet, even so, the conventional wisdom was that the Sorcerer didn't measure up. 5e took the encounter-devestating round-to-round flexibility of the 3.5 Sorcerer and /combined/ it with the campaign-devestating day-to-day flexibility of the 3.5 Wizard, and, for good measure, the at-will attacks both enjoyed in 4e, to create the neo-Vancian casting system [i]that more than half the sub-classes in the game use.[/i] To add insult to injury, throwing a rock in melee is more heavily limited in 5e than casting a spell. In a way, the same thing that made the Sorcerer theoretically Tier-2 inferior to the Tier-1 Wizard in 3.5 was the same thing that made it a much better class design, better for build-to-concepts, more robustly-balanced, and not as many light-years away from magic-wielding characters in genre. Those limited number of known spells that you could add to infrequently and change little. It meant each Sorcerer could be distinct from the next, because they knew different spells, and define a theme/concept/identity by that combination of spells. Some build-to-concept optimizers created the X-men as Sorcerers, for a humorous instance. Badly as you think the Sorcerer may have been mistreated this edition (and, hey, you might not be wrong), it does retain that strength-in-its-greatest-weakness. The 5e Sorcerer could make for some very cool characters in a very memorable campaign. [/QUOTE]

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