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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 327261" data-attributes="member: 413">I've made no exception for the sorcerer.  Didn't you read any of my post?  I would  let  a rogue switch around his skills over time or  a figther or wizard to switch around his feats if the situation warrants it.  I don't have any hard fast rule for these kind of changes, only that they are "reasonable" and (hopefully) make sense from an RP point of view.  If the character is constantly using pick-pocket and having fun with it, then I'm not gonna let him change it.  My players are all very reasonable and aren't the type to "take advantage" of my leniency.  In fact, more often than not, changes have come at MY suggestion because I see a player has made some decisions that just aren't working out and would have more fun if they changed them a bit.Like I said...I believe that real people change their skills in real life, forgetting what they used to know (at least on a conscious level) to make room for new things.  You (convieniently) didn't answer my question:  Is there nothing that you were able to do really well 5 or 10 years ago that you can no longer do or no longer do as well because you've not concentrated on developing or maintaining that skill?  I can come up with example after example of things in real life that I can't do so well any more because I've concentrated on new things...I see no reason why D&D characters can't change in the same way.Skills of mine that have atrophied in the last 10 years:Military related skills (marksmanship, Drill & Ceremony, polishing leather, tank field maintenence, First Aid, Orienteering, Armor Tactics, Mine Clearing, Obstacle Breaching, Radio Communications, Physical Fitness, etc, etc,)Sports: Hockey (Ice Skating, puck handling, slap shot, wrist shot, team work, positional play, agility, the art of delivering a crushing hip-check and flipping an opponent over your back <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />, I've even forgotten some of the more vague rules), Skiing (equipment maintenance, paralelling, jumping, flexibility)Music- Guitar: I've forgotten many many songs but have learned a few new ones...is this any different than a bard or sorcerer forgetting a little used spell to learn a new one? My fingers are weaker and not as nimble as they'd be if I had kept playing 2 or 3 hours a day as I once did, reading sheet music, learning music "by ear", etc.Skills I've concentrated on that have developed in the last 10 years:  Software design, cooking, household maintenence, parenting, astronomy, paintball related skills (military skills are not very useful in paintball really), computer related skills.Sure...I guess in game terms, some of my new skills have certainly come from new "classes" and "levels" (perhaps I've multiclassed from Soldier/Student to Soldier/Student/Engineer/Father) but I would certainly not have had time to develope these new skills if I'd worked on maintaining the ones that I've let go.Does this mean that the "Great DM in the Sky" has allowed my player to make a "retrocative" change to my skills?  Hardly.  My history hasn't changed...I still was a mediocre hockey player and guitar player when I was a kid and a soldier when I was a young adult.  But I'm not that anymore...now I'm father, husband, engineer, paintball player and my skills have changed to reflect my different lifestyle and career.  Do you deny that similar changes don't take place in the life of a PC?So when a Rogue who was once a street urchin and was good at bluffing and pick-pocketing people has grown into a scout for his party and never picks anyone's pockets any more, doesn't it make sense that his skills in pick-pocketing might atrophy as he concentrates more on stealth and finding/disabling traps or spotting foes?  It makes complete sense to me.  It is silly to think that once you develope a skill, you never get any worse at it (wouldn't life be great if it did?  A gold medal figure skater would never have to practice again until someone is able to beat her!) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />As I said, I give loads of advice to my players.  They don't always take it and sometimes they make decisions before I can give it (or even ones that I'm unaware of) and I'm not the only DM in my group.  The other give less advice than I do and he and I have had miscommunications on rules and style that have lead to me making bad decisisons for my characters and he for his characters.  I guess you always give perfect advice to your players?  I guess your players have never assumed you'd rule that a certain ability does X in your game when it really does Y or that your game would concentrate on combat when it focuses more on stealth or avoiding combat?  Hmmm....that must be great.Players make mistakes and miscalculations.  DMs make mistakes and miscalculations in the advice they give to players.  Miscommunications happen.  If they do, I sure as s%&t don't want to allow it to make the game less fun for a player (because then it is less fun for me).  I like to make my NPC villians as tough as possible.  I power-game my NPCs just like I'm a player power-gaming a PC.  Since I have the advantage of knowing exactly how every rule will work, I don't want to hold back and I don't want to punish the players for not being able to read my mind.  So I'll let them make a reasonable changes.  If I can find an in-game explanation for it so it doesn't seem "retroactive", then all the better.  But like I said...Fun conquers all.Even the most experienced players make mistakes.  If you sat down at my table or I at yours, either one of us may make invalid assumptions about the other's DM style or interpritations of the rules amd that would lead to bad choices.  If that is going to make the game less fun for an experienced player, then I'm going to step in and say "You know...that ability really hasn't been very useful for you in the last several sessions...and I don't think it ever will be.  Why don't you change it to something a little more useful?"  If a player isn't having fun, I'm not.  And that's why I do what I do.As for the example of the Sorcerer NPC villian changing spells...if he is USING a spell, then he's not going to be able to swap it now then will he?  So how would the players or PCs know?  Or why would they care?  If they figured that out (which would likely only happen if I told them) then I'd explain that he just never used that spell and learned something new...just like a musician learns a new song and fogets ones he never plays any more...that works especially well for sorcerers and bars since their arcane knowledge is described as being akin to poetry or musical ability....</blockquote>

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