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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 328008" data-attributes="member: 4937">I think there are two cases here:1) The case of a new player who didn't really understand the rules that felt he has short changed himself by loading up on 'useless' spells and skills.  In part, I see this as the fault of the DM for not trying to challenge the players variously enough that no skill, feat, or spell feels completely unwanted, but, granted, there are some skills and feats that are more likely to come up than others.  So, if I had a newish player I might let him move a few skill points around or change a spell out mid-campaign if he had a legitimate problem.  Note, a legitimate problem is one that is also a problem for me as a DM and which is not easily correctable without retrofitting.  For instance, suppose the rouge finds himself woefully short on the Search skill.  This is a legitimate problem forme as a DM because I kinda count on rouges of X level being able to make Y DC search checks 50% of the time.   However, it is not one that I feel requires retrofitting, because I would simply advice the rouge's player, "Tough it out until you gain a level then dump as many points as possible into Search."  In the mean time I'd (secretly) be a little less harsh on the search DC's, and I'd keep track of what the rouge could do and provide oppurtunities to do it.  Suppose a Fighter had taken Toughness three times at 9th level and was just beginning to realize that although the extra h.p. were nice, he was way behind on his feat chains and would have a hard time getting the really cool feats.  Well, I'd probably consider letting him untoughen a little (I'd make him keep at least one) provided that those feats hadn't at some point in his history been the difference between life and death, and that I as a DM felt the party was falling behind where I wanted them to be in terms of the challenges I could throw at them, and that I didn't think he fell into the second category I'll deal with below.In the case of a newish player with a Sorcerer that wasn't perfectly min/maxed, I'd only worry if the Sorcerer wasn't able to contribute meaningfully to play.  If the Sorcerer isn't fully min/maxed, that's actually great because otherwise, he'd look a little cookie cutter.  Ok, so Sleep and Mage Armor are some of the 1st level spells you know, and your now 10th level.  So what.  You don't have to be fully min/maxed to be fun to play, and besides....2) The second situation is a cunning min/maxer trying his best to weedle every little advantage out of me that he can.  This falls into the category of annoying.   Ok, so you took Sleep and Mage Armor at 1st level, because at 1st level that's some of the best spells in the game, and NOW, after using those spells to good effect to survive to 9th level you want to drop those spells out for Shield (because you just got Bracers of Defence +4) and Burning Hands (which you intend to drop into your new Sculpt Spell feat).  I DON'T THINK SO.  Next you'll be wanting to swap out Toughness (after using it to stay alive through levels 1-4), for Greater Spell Focus.  The game is not about having the most cewl tricked out character that you can have under the rules.  The game is about role playing, and if you are trying to define your character solely by what he can do, you are missing the point.</blockquote>

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