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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 2635952" data-attributes="member: 3929">That doesn't matter, the same can be done to a wizard... he won't have all the spells, after all. Furthermore, I did not say that in situations that needed immediate reaction a sorcerer would be able to respond, it's just that he will have more of an advantage over the wizard. This is true. It's a matter of relative, not absolue, advantage.Precicely. So, compared to the wizard, because the sorcerer has less of a disadvantage, he has an advantage. Right?He surely does, but he'll never know if those spells are the right ones when he prepares them. The wizard's main advantage, as we agree upon, is spell flexibility and his knowledge of many spells. But in order for him to fully take advantage of that flexibility, he needs to keep some of his spell slots open... which means he has less spells to cast at any given moment. If he fills his spell slots fully, then he has lost the main advantage of his class for trying to cast as many spells as a sorcerer... something he shouldn't be trying to do, because that's not his ballywick.A balanced encounter is supposed to use 20% of the party's resources. On average, this will mean that 20% of the wizards spells will be used in any encounter; the sorcerer will lose the same number of spells, but the % of his spells lost will be lower. Meaning that after 4 encounters, the wizard will be dragging along with only 20% of his spell repitoire remaining, and the sorc will have a larger % of his spells left to him.And it's very considerate of enemies to back off when the good guys need to rest to recoup spells. Because of their fewer number of spells, wizards will likely be the ones to run out of spells the soonest, and so they will more often be vulnerable to attacks when they're resting. The sorcerer will be vulnerable too, but not as much, nor as often because of his much larger spells per day.But your argument was that Wizards would have access to more spells because of their ability to scribe scrolls into their spellbook. Well, Sorcerers can have just as much access. They can actually have more... they don't need to spend money scribing, and so can afford more scrolls. So as far as access goes, the sorc can be walking around able to cast many more spells than the wizard... because the sorc still has the scroll in scroll form, while the wizard has put it in his spellbook.Now I agree that having a spell in a spellbook is more valuable than one on a scroll because it can be cast more than once. But if you're talking "the right spell at the right time", then having a lot of scrolls is much more likely to render an exact right spell that needs to be cast now than is having all those same spells in a spellbook. The wizard might have it memorized, or might not. The sorcerer will be able to cast it from the scroll.You're right that it's not the same. But the discussion was over how many spells each class as access to. And because of the use of scrolls, the sorcerer has access to just as many spells.The draconic bloodlines for sorcerers you mention is a flavor element. Wizardly spellbooks are not. They are a game mechanic. Like KarinsDad says (we're finally seeing eye to eye KarinsDad! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />) it smacks of common sense to attack a wizard's spellbook. When you fight a wizard, you fight his spells. To reduce his ability to cast those spells, you can strike his spellbook. Wizards should have to spend resources to protect their books, because an unprotected spellbook is the beginning of the end for a wizard.So your complaint is that he doesn't have a unique spell list to choose from?For his spells known he's going to stick to bread and butter, and with its myriad uses Fabricate might well be one of those spells. But for the other spells which will likely have less occasion to be cast... that's what his scrolls are for.Silent ImageGreaseNystul's Magic AuraVentriloquismObscuring MistGlitterdustMinor ImageAlter SelfPyrotechnicsFog CloudSleet StormStinking CloudClairvoyanceSuggestionMajor ImageEvery Summon Monster spellShadow Conjuration, Lesser and GreaterShadow Evocation, Lesser and GreaterAll the higher level Image spellsLimited WishAnd the granddaddy of multiple use spells: TelekinesisIt's not that hard to find spells with a wide applicability or multiple uses, actually. You just have to look and use your imagination.You argue that the wizard (and by association the Cleric and Druid) is more powerful because he has access to all these great spells that serve very specific functions. But in order for that to be useful at all, the wizard/cleric/druid must have those spell prepared. And if those spells are prepared, then they won't have all the great multi-use spells ready to go. And if they don't have them prepared, then the sorc will be able to create many spell effects "compared to a Wizard. Or a Cleric. Or a Druid."And even if the wiz/cleric/druid leave spell slots open, then it's still 15 minutes between the challenge, and the right spell.Two things can be redundant either by what they do, or how they do it.The barbarian and fighter are redundant in what they do; that they kill things by hitting it with a piece of molded steel. In this way, yes, wizards and sorcerers are exactly as redundant as barbarians and fighters. This decreases their worth exactly not a whit.How they do things is a different matter. This entire thread has been talking about how much better sorcerers are than wizards at adapting quickly to situations while wizards are master of the prepared and researched fight. As far as how you use your spellcasting goes, that's as big a difference as there ever needed to be.SpellbookClass skillsWeapon ProficienciesSpells per daySpells knownSpontaneous castingMetamagic use (which is an as yet undiscussed advantage to the sorcerer)If that's "slight", then I must be a fool when I see that these two classes can fit different billets, have different strengths, different weakensses, and cast spells differently.</blockquote>

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