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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LuYangShih" data-source="post: 824244" data-attributes="member: 10414">Alright.  As Mr. Burns would say, I've had one of my trademark changes of heart.  Pax, I am arguing with you because I find debate enjoyable.  It's intellectually stimulating, and it's good to see what other people think on an issue.  I see no need to get emotionally involved in a debate, it only clouds the mind.  But then again, I'm the Wizard proponent, and you're the Sorcerer proponent.    <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I think I'm going to quit with the quote/reply posting.  It has a tendency to miss the forest for the trees, and besides, I'm getting tired of typing {quote} and {b} so much.  Alright, first off, the previous poster who stated part of what makes or breaks Wizards is the specific campaign setting is correct.  Wizards are much more dependent on the world they live in than Sorcerers are.  As you say, it can take up to 10 days to scribe a spell, so if time is an issue in your campaign (we've only got eight days and 9 hours to save the world!), the Wizard will be much less effective than a Sorcerer would be.On the other hand, a Wizard will be more effective if time isn't an issue.  The main constraint Wizards face, in my opinion, is time.  If the Wizard has time, the Wizard will end up the superior class.By the way, Wizards do gain additional spells to cast per day if they are specialists.  They gain an extra spell per level to cast every day.  And you say I don't know enough about Sorcerers.  Also, when I spoke of the Intelligence bonus giving extra spells, I meant that the more you increase your Intelligence through level gains and items, the more spells you will be able to cast, reducing the discrepancy between Sorcerers and Wizards in spells cast per day.As for the rest, Hypersmurf already mentioned the Duelist as a PrC the Wizard can take that gives benefits based on Intelligence.  Also, I don't see your point in that it costs Wizards precious spellcasting levels.  That is always the case with multiclassing spellcasters, and it applies equally to multiclassing a Sorcerer as a Paladin or Blackguard.Spontaneous casting is great.  It's the main benefit the Sorcerers have, but in my opinion, it doesn't make up for the fact that sometimes Sorcerers will simply not have the spells needed to deal with the situation at hand.  This is almost never the case with Wizards.You keep saying that the Sorcerers spontaneous casting overrides the versatility of the Wizard, but I just don't see how.  What if you are in the middle of an investigation, and want magical help?  How many Sorcerers take Contact Other Plane as one of their known spells?  And the same sort of situation can and will apply to things like exploration, scouting, spying, and so on.  Sorcerers have a limited application, and they can't deal with the large variety of situations a Wizard can, at least in my experience.  I've seen Sorcerers played, and they're fun, and effective, but not as effective as Wizards.  You obviously disagree, but until I see a Sorcerer that can come even close to dealing with the large amount of situations a Wizard can, you probably won't convince me that a Sorcerer is as good as a Wizard.</blockquote>

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