Sorcerrors & Metamagic

[Gez]

Likewise, Psionics is the magic of Order, so no Chaotic types can take Psion.
> Elves have Psion as their favored class.

Actually, you just put in evidence the point why I've always been uncomfortable with elven psions. Elven magic is based, IMO, on "normal" magic, studied by love of the Art (and thus, by natural inclination, as a hobby, not as a dedicated, painstaking work -- that's another reason they need so much time to become wizards). Not on focused brainstorming and psychotronic effects.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Wolf: giving bonus spells/day in addition to known spells is just overpowered IMO. I was trying to come up with something that was reasonably balanced with the core classes. Besides, they're basically Sorcerers, it's not like spells/day is a problem for them.

The key here was that I combined the best features of both classes, producing something that was superior in every way to the PHB Sorcerer, EXCEPT that it required two stats for spellcasting. This can be a huge drawback. I'd be willing to drop the (CHA 10+level) requirement for spellcasting, but there's a simple problem with only using CHA for saving throws: many powers simply don't have saves. Either they're defensive, targetted on friends, or offensive but no save.
I might have to simplify it a bit and say CHA 10 to cast anything, CHA 11 for spell levels 1-3, 12 for 4-6, 13 for 7-9 or something, but I'd like to keep some sort of CHA-related drawback in there. I'm still working on the details there; at the moment I don't have this limit in the class, and I think something is needed.

Gez: Actually, that part came from a thread on this board a while back. I wanted to align Psionics vs. Sorcery along the law-chaos axis and then make one be for Gnomes and the other for Elves, so I asked people which of the eight possible combinations they'd prefer. This was the most popular permutation.
It requires a bit of alteration of the histories and such. The PHB rules basically give that Sorcery (and later, Psionics) are discriminated against, and the people who practice them are viewed as freaks. If I was removing Wizards as a class (well, removing any class that learns as many spells as they want simply by copying into a book), then these two types of magic would be more accepted by default.

IMC, there are simply four types of magic: Psionics (Law), Natural (Neutral), Sorcery (Chaos), and Divine (Any), each of which has two core classes. Individual areas might not like certain types, but it's not universal. You're just as likely to find a city that hates treehuggers.
Psionics and Sorcery are innate; either you have the talent or you don't. Divine is entirely granted by your deity. Natural is drawn from the world around you, no deity approving your actions, and anyone may learn it, but it's the most limited (no spontaneous casting of any type)

Basically, if Psionics is simply the magic of Law (and not the freakish outsider magic that the normal rules make it), then it becomes more understandable that the magic of Law, Mind, Astral, Defense, and Finesse becomes associated with the intellectual, heirarchical Elves (and this helps explain the Gith), while the magic of Chaos, Blood, Shadow, Illusion, and Raw Power becomes more appropriate for the Gnomes (but only if you make it more dependent on INT than CHA).
Besides, the "dedicated, painstaking work" you describe seems to apply more to Wizards than to Psions. Wizards spend their time studying old books and practicing exact formulae to get spell effects, while Psions have a natural talent they could dabble in. So, if anything, I'd use your statement to argue the opposite direction.

 

[Jens]

Int is generally a stronger stat than Cha; it gives skill points. If you want to nudge the sorcerer toward Int, you don't need to give much. How about bonus spells known based on inherent intelligence but otherwise keeping spellcasting as in the PHB?

Alternately, replace the spells known table by the wizard's spells per day table (again modified by inherent intelligence; the 4-4-4 pattern plus bonus spells will give most spells known of lower levels), and add "0"-s to the table with daily castings as appropriate.

 

[kreynolds]

It might be fair... how hard is it to sunder a book with a greatsword ?

Impossible, actually. You can't sunder objects. You can only sunder weapons. If you want to attack an object, you use the rules for doing so. The spellbook would have a fair decent AC to, based on the possessor's Dex, the books small size, and it would automatically get +10 to AC because it is in the possessor's hand. It could be kinda difficult.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Jens:
Substituting the Wizard table isn't a bad idea, although I'll have to look through it more.
It's not just that I want to nudge them towards INT; I want it to be possible to have a high-INT, low-CHA Sorcerer who knows a lot of spells, as well as a low-INT high-CHA Sorcerer who throws the same spells many times. Effectively, I want one class that makes the two playstyles we see for Wizards and Sorcerers.

I came up with another possibility. It's meant to replace the (10+CHA for spell level) limit; I wanted something that makes you want to have a decent CHA without making it be required.
> The Sorcerer's CHA modifier is added to his caster level, with two conditions:
1> For positive CHA modifiers, this can't do more than double your caster level.
2> For negative CHA modifiers, this can't reduce your caster level below the minimum needed to cast the spell in question.

That is, let's say I have a CHA of 16. At level 1, I have caster level 2. At level 2, I have caster level 4. At 3 and up, I have (level+3). At level 20 I'd have caster level 23.
Or, let's say I have a CHA of 6. At levels 1, 2, and 3, I'd still have caster level 1. At level 4, I'd have CL 2 when casting level 1 spells, and CL4 when casting level 2 spells (since that's their minimum). And so on.
This only affects the level-dependent benefits of spells (range, duration, caster level checks). It doesn't change your actual class level (which determines spells/day, spells known, familiars, etc.)

 

[Gez]

Sorry, I digress.

Gez:
Basically, if Psionics is simply the magic of Law (and not the freakish outsider magic that the normal rules make it), then it becomes more understandable that the magic of Law, Mind, Astral, Defense, and Finesse becomes associated with the intellectual, hierarchical Elves (and this helps explain the Gith),

What I tried to say is that my elves are creature of chaos. They are not hierarchical (and seldom intellectual), except those from the derogatory evil elf subrace.

On the other hand, I see gnomes like they are in the Manual of the Planes, NG with a slight tendancy toward law -- not exactly chaos mage.

Besides, the "dedicated, painstaking work" you describe seems to apply more to Wizards than to Psions. Wizards spend their time studying old books and practicing exact formulae to get spell effects, while Psions have a natural talent they could dabble in. So, if anything, I'd use your statement to argue the opposite direction.[/B]

Ah, what I was trying to say was that, when something is a passion for you, it's not a work and it's never boring. Yes, wizardry is painstaking to study; unless for the fans. I can easily see elves as magic geeks, they learn it because it fascinate them and they toy with what they learn; so for them it's rarely a boring task. However, they don't take a quick road to mastery, so they spend a whole lot of time.


Of course, mileages vary. But personnally, I have less troubles with elves discussing about the effect of mandrake roots in potionmaking than about what mantra to use to calm the Self when an enemy induce a flashback of Oedipus in the subconscious.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Sorry, I digress.
What I tried to say is that my elves are creature of chaos. They are not hierarchical (and seldom intellectual), except those from the derogatory evil elf subrace.

On the other hand, I see gnomes like they are in the Manual of the Planes, NG with a slight tendancy toward law -- not exactly chaos mage.

I know, it was a bit strange for me to tweak the alignments like that, but part of it is the definitions I use for "Lawful" and "Chaotic". IMC, it's more of a question of reason vs. instinct. That is, an orderly, left-brain mind versus a chaotic, right-brain one. Reason versus Instinct. One side effect of this is that animals are more CN than TN.

So, let's look at how you'd interpret the two races in the absence of a research-based Wizardry and using those definitions for alignment.

IMC, Elves believe in duty, honor, a feudal heirarchy, and all that stuff. Even if they also like "free will", most would still be Lawful simply because of their mindset. They all use weapons and almost all wear light armor; their magic (Psionics) is simply an innate, focused thing that many Elves use for utility. Those few who study the magic in its entirety don't throw balls of fire or anything, it's more about enchantment and divination. They view Psionics as the "pure" magic since you're drawing power directly from the six different attributes instead of being handed magic by a deity.
There are Arcane Archers, but as they tend to be Chaotic and it's not the Favored Class, they're pretty rare.

(Note that Wood Elves are separate; their favored class is still Ranger, which makes them far more likely to go AA)

On the other hand, Gnomes are the pranksters. Their "King" just happens to be the leader of whichever House (guild) is currently the most wealthy, and most of them are only subservient to him when it's really critical. Their loyalties are to their families (and by extension, their House) instead of to the crown, so power shifts are common and peaceful. They're chaotic in every way that really matters.
All Gnomes have a little talent with illusion, and those who focus on their innate magic have a frightening amount of raw offensive power.

This is just how I ended up doing it. Really, you could reverse a lot of this if you wanted to. Admittedly, it required me to shift a few of the planes around (Bytopia needs to move a bit, for example), but it's a small price to pay. Also, I wanted to differentiate Gnomes from Dwarves, and since Dwarves are mostly LG I wanted Gnomes to be more chaotic.