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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8131540" data-attributes="member: 72555">Again, it doesn't say "you know if you failed".The basic game loop:1) Player describes what the PC wants to do.2) DM tells Player to roll dice. (optional)3) DM describes results in the world.1a) "I want to search for secret doors"2a) "Roll a d20, add your intelligence(investigation) modifier" -- player rolls a 17.3a) "You didn't find any doors".Now, 2a can happen either if there is a 25 DC door there, or there is no door there at all. In one case they are searching for a DC 25. In the other, the DM is getting the player to roll some dice with no impact at all.Or it was a DC 10 check to think there was no door there (on a 10 or under, you'll falsely think there is a secret door somewhere, but you will be wrong).1b) "I want to use my knack on that search".2b) "Ok; roll your psionic talent die" - player rolls a 4.3b) "Your die is not expended.  You still didn't find any doors."Now, 2b can happen if either there is a DC 25 door there, or there is no door there at all.  In one case the DM is getting the player to use a psi talent die to see if they hit DC 25 total, in the other they are getting the player to roll some dice with no impact at all.Or it was a DC 10 check to think there was no door there (on a 10 or under, you'll falsely think there is a secret door somewhere, but you will be wrong).  In this case, the psi die roll was again pointless; here, the DM told the player to roll the psi die, despite not being able to use the knack ability, because the player doesn't know if they can use the knack ability.[spoiler]The in-world effects of "cannot use knack ability" and "knack ability isn't sufficient to generate a success" are indistinguishable in-world.  The DM is free to tell the player information that isn't available in-world, but the DM is not obliged to do so.[/spoiler]Same stuff.  Difference? die size.If the DM doesn't want the player to know if they succeeded/failed on the first check, they just don't tell the player.  They tell the player what the character learned.Now, you are free to tell the player "that was a success", but that is up to you as a DM.There is no "greyed out knack" button or a "beep" sound when you try to press the "use knack" and it doesn't work.</blockquote>

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