Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Soulknife Knack problems (Is it incredibly powerful?)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Rellott" data-source="post: 8132433" data-attributes="member: 6809701"><p>For someone so hung up on wording and RAW, you toss around quotation marks and ungenerous interpretations of others’ words pretty casually. No one ever said “strip their dice.” That was you that said that when you interpreted their attempt to assist you within your desired parameters after other attempts at logical, RAW and RAI interpretations had been met with scorn. </p><p></p><p>If you fail an ability check, you can roll a die. Yes. Your focus thus far has been on the DM, though. It doesn’t say “if a player fails an ability check, you can let them roll a die.” It’s about the player and their perception. “I didn’t get the result I wanted, so it must have been a failure. I want to roll the psi-energy die.” They roll the die, DM gives them more information - which could be a description that implies success, and the DM says the die is expended, or it could be telling them that the result doesn’t change and the die is not expended. </p><p></p><p>Ultimately your argument ties back to an argument about when players should roll dice at all. Should players just declare “I’m investigating the room! Here’s my check result!” Or should the DM only allow them to roll when there is something for them to find? The rules do say “The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure.” Do you follow that rule with such strict logic, too? I’ve seen several threads debating it, but I think most people would agree that only asking them to roll some checks (let’s say investigation checks) when there’s something their roll can do (something for them to find) is silly because it lets them know there’s a chance they can accomplish something, but letting them know that puts the player in the position to metagame. To avoid the whole scenario, it’s probably best to just let them roll the check even if there’s no DC because there’s no way their check can succeed. Doing so keeps everyone immersed in the game, hurts no one’s fun, and wasted no resources other than maybe 2 seconds of the group’s time as the player rolls an extra die that they think might help them regardless of its ability to do so. </p><p></p><p>Regarding your Shield spell analogy, it’s not the same. Some DMs may state the exact roll the monster made (allowing the player to know exactly whether shield will help) while others may just say it hit, leaving you to decide if it’s worth it. Either way, you lose a resource trying to turn what is obviously a hit into a miss, regardless of your success. With the psi-dice, you have the potential to change the result but do not expend a resource unless you’re successful, so you’re not wasting anything to roll it when there’s no potential for success. </p><p></p><p>I think a more interesting question about this “fail an ability check, roll the psi-die” rule would be about contested ability checks. If you roll athletics to beat someone in an arm wrestling competition and their roll beats yours, can you roll the psi-die to change the result, since you “failed?” And if you can roll it then, can you also roll it for initiatives if someone else beats yours, since initiative could be argued to be a contested ability check?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rellott, post: 8132433, member: 6809701"] For someone so hung up on wording and RAW, you toss around quotation marks and ungenerous interpretations of others’ words pretty casually. No one ever said “strip their dice.” That was you that said that when you interpreted their attempt to assist you within your desired parameters after other attempts at logical, RAW and RAI interpretations had been met with scorn. If you fail an ability check, you can roll a die. Yes. Your focus thus far has been on the DM, though. It doesn’t say “if a player fails an ability check, you can let them roll a die.” It’s about the player and their perception. “I didn’t get the result I wanted, so it must have been a failure. I want to roll the psi-energy die.” They roll the die, DM gives them more information - which could be a description that implies success, and the DM says the die is expended, or it could be telling them that the result doesn’t change and the die is not expended. Ultimately your argument ties back to an argument about when players should roll dice at all. Should players just declare “I’m investigating the room! Here’s my check result!” Or should the DM only allow them to roll when there is something for them to find? The rules do say “The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure.” Do you follow that rule with such strict logic, too? I’ve seen several threads debating it, but I think most people would agree that only asking them to roll some checks (let’s say investigation checks) when there’s something their roll can do (something for them to find) is silly because it lets them know there’s a chance they can accomplish something, but letting them know that puts the player in the position to metagame. To avoid the whole scenario, it’s probably best to just let them roll the check even if there’s no DC because there’s no way their check can succeed. Doing so keeps everyone immersed in the game, hurts no one’s fun, and wasted no resources other than maybe 2 seconds of the group’s time as the player rolls an extra die that they think might help them regardless of its ability to do so. Regarding your Shield spell analogy, it’s not the same. Some DMs may state the exact roll the monster made (allowing the player to know exactly whether shield will help) while others may just say it hit, leaving you to decide if it’s worth it. Either way, you lose a resource trying to turn what is obviously a hit into a miss, regardless of your success. With the psi-dice, you have the potential to change the result but do not expend a resource unless you’re successful, so you’re not wasting anything to roll it when there’s no potential for success. I think a more interesting question about this “fail an ability check, roll the psi-die” rule would be about contested ability checks. If you roll athletics to beat someone in an arm wrestling competition and their roll beats yours, can you roll the psi-die to change the result, since you “failed?” And if you can roll it then, can you also roll it for initiatives if someone else beats yours, since initiative could be argued to be a contested ability check? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Soulknife Knack problems (Is it incredibly powerful?)
Top