Speaking during wild shape?

[kerbarian]

Is there any way to speak during wild shape that's available to low-med level characters without losing any druid spellcasting progression?

The ways I can think of all have problems:

1) Wild shape into a form that can speak -- Treant, elemental, etc. All such forms (that I can find) require a high druid level, plus they may not be ideal forms for other purposes.

2) Take a level of Master of Many Forms, for the Shifter's Speech class ability. The problem with this is that you lose spellcasting progression.

3) Tongues. This one is a little questionable, but it does say "This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature", without mentioning any requirement about the subject being able to speak in the first place. Unfortunately, it's not a Druid spell.

One option would be to take some points in Use Magic Device, and then use scrolls to cast Tongues and then Permanency. This would be expensive and would require a lot of skill points sunk into UMD to have even a chance of rolling the required 31 to activate the scroll of Permanency, making it a high-level-only option. Plus it can be dispelled. From what I can tell, though, there's no chance of mishap when using scrolls this way -- UMD gives you the effective caster level required for the scroll, so you never have to make a check for the scroll itself.

Here's a wacky thought -- what if a wizard were to use Magic Jar to take over the Druid, then cast Tongues and Permanency on himself in the Druid's body. Would the spells stick to the Druid's body? By the RAW, I think they would... If that works, it's an interesting way to use Permanency for any of the self-only spells on someone else.

 

[Goldmoon]

If youre referring to spellcasting, I dont believe verbal components have to be in a specific language. A druid who wild shaped into a dog could cast a spell which required only verbal components, he would just chant in the dogs language.

 

[Twowolves]

Not that it would help, but I house ruled a feat called Speaking Wild Shape, that let the druid speak any language he knows in any form he assumes, as well as mimicing a Speak With Animals effect that only worked on animals similar to the form the druid is in. For example, a druid in wolf form could speak common to his party, and also speak with other wolves, dogs, foxes etc.

But then again, I also house ruled away Natural Spell too....

 

[kerbarian]

If youre referring to spellcasting, I dont believe verbal components have to be in a specific language. A druid who wild shaped into a dog could cast a spell which required only verbal components, he would just chant in the dogs language.

I know you can cast spells in wild shape via the Natural Spell feat. I'm concerned about just communicating with the rest of the party. There are a lot of advantages to adventuring full-time in a wild shape, but it just doesn't work at all if you can't talk to anyone. You'd have to cancel your wild shape and start it up again any time you wanted to say so much as "Hey, there are some Orcs hiding up ahead." Which is especially bad considering how items work with wild shape now.

You can still use your magic rings/amulets/cloaks/etc. in wild shape, but you have to take them off and set them on the ground, then activate wild shape, then put them on again. And at the end of wild shape, the items you've put on that way fall to the ground. But if you don't do that, all those items meld into your new form as nonfunctional.

 

[Vorput]

You can still use your magic rings/amulets/cloaks/etc. in wild shape, but you have to take them off and set them on the ground, then activate wild shape, then put them on again. And at the end of wild shape, the items you've put on that way fall to the ground. But if you don't do that, all those items meld into your new form as nonfunctional.

...How tedious...

 

[calypso15]

You can still use your magic rings/amulets/cloaks/etc. in wild shape, but you have to take them off and set them on the ground, then activate wild shape, then put them on again. And at the end of wild shape, the items you've put on that way fall to the ground. But if you don't do that, all those items meld into your new form as nonfunctional.

That's assuming your new form can even wear them. Which it probably can't.

Calypso

 

[kerbarian]

That's assuming your new form can even wear them. Which it probably can't.

It would depend on the item and the form. Pretty much anything can wear rings and an amulet. Most ground animals could probably wear bracers and a belt. An ape could probably wear a full set of magical gear. And you can always have armor specially made for a specific nonhumanoid form (at 2x cost). Of course, you'd probably need help putting all those items on.

 

[nittanytbone]

Cast "Speak with Animals" on a party member? Its a low level spell, so no problem memorizing some.

Of course, under the new errata, the Druid's type doesn't change to "animal," thus Speak with Animals might not work directly, which is why you might want to keep a small monkey around to relay for you when you're in Dire Ape form...

If your DM is generous, you might be able to make a custom permanent wondrous item of Speak with Animals. It should be useful enough to a druid (talk to your companion, easy scouting, etc) and you can loan it to a friend to interpret for you.

You could also use physical gestures; drawing letters in the dirt with a paw, nodding yes and no, etc.

 

[MarkB]

Having a psionic character in the party who can manifest mindlink works well.

 

[kerbarian]

Is there any way to speak during wild shape that's available to low-med level characters without losing any druid spellcasting progression?

I actually just thought of a somewhat reasonable option: Awaken. You could cast it at 9th level or get a scroll before then, though it is a little bit expensive either in XP or gold.

The idea would be to awaken a creature of the same type as your preferred wild shape form (or collect a menagerie, I suppose, if you want it to work for many different forms). For example, awaken some sort of bird if that's the form you prefer. The key elements to this are:

"An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any)."

and

"A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form."

So your new awakened friend can be a translator for you. The one issue is that an awakened animal changes type to magical beast. Does that mean it no longer qualifies as something a wild-shaped Druid can speak to? The simplest way to answer this would be: can awakened animals still speak to normal animals of their type? Is there anything mentioned about this in any source material?