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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6301074" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, it certainly is down graded in Pathfinder, which seems to be setting your expectations.&nbsp;&nbsp; I guess I'm just pretty old school, with my formative years as a player/DM being in the early 80's, I just expect the world to be as filled with traps as Gygaxian D&amp;D.&nbsp;&nbsp; While circumventing traps is a powerful tool, I have always found that it works best when you can also apply some sort of perception skill as a backup plan.&nbsp;- Good but a shade below Guarded Mind.&nbsp; Add Linguistics?&nbsp;- I agree with adding Tumble.&nbsp; Tumble is such a powerful skill that anything that adds to it is worth considering.&nbsp;- Good.&nbsp; &nbsp;- Meh.&nbsp; Have it add to the roll to confirm a critical hit or something of that sort.&nbsp;- Very strong.&nbsp; Drop the 'after not moving' clause.&nbsp; Though, you seem to find Stealth a lot more generally useful than I've fond it.&nbsp; Care to explain why?&nbsp;- Very weak.&nbsp; I'm not sure what to add here.&nbsp; I'd say add 'Swim' as it seems in theme, but it would still probably be fairly weak except in a few wilderness heavy games.&nbsp; One possibility I've thought about is it adds a 'Jack of All Trades' bonus - you get to add the bonus to any skill check in any skill you aren't trained in.&nbsp; But I'm not sure how the math works out there.&nbsp; 'Craft' is also a possibility.&nbsp; &nbsp;- Good&nbsp; - Good.&nbsp; Roughly as strong as Astute.&nbsp; Not sure what to do to bump it up, as its already complex.&nbsp;- Good, but not good enough.&nbsp; Possibly add spellcraft to recognize a spell?&nbsp; If not merge with Trap sense and call it 'Danger Sense'.&nbsp; - Really weak by itself compared to broadly useful abilities like Sixth Sense, Guarded Mind, or Dauntless.&nbsp; Not sure what to do about it, but maybe merge with the above as per the suggestion in 'Spell Sense' or have it also add to Search to detect a trap.&nbsp; In general though, this is the sort of power creep that makes me leary of the otherwise interesting idea and makes me want to throw out Gaurded Mind and Dauntless as too potent and rebalance to nothing better than the original Daring.&nbsp; - Good, but both of these effects are easy to acquire immunity to or deal via minor spell use.&nbsp;&nbsp; Perhaps add Climb.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6301074, member: 4937"] Well, it certainly is down graded in Pathfinder, which seems to be setting your expectations. I guess I'm just pretty old school, with my formative years as a player/DM being in the early 80's, I just expect the world to be as filled with traps as Gygaxian D&D. While circumventing traps is a powerful tool, I have always found that it works best when you can also apply some sort of perception skill as a backup plan. - Good but a shade below Guarded Mind. Add Linguistics? - I agree with adding Tumble. Tumble is such a powerful skill that anything that adds to it is worth considering. - Good. - Meh. Have it add to the roll to confirm a critical hit or something of that sort. - Very strong. Drop the 'after not moving' clause. Though, you seem to find Stealth a lot more generally useful than I've fond it. Care to explain why? - Very weak. I'm not sure what to add here. I'd say add 'Swim' as it seems in theme, but it would still probably be fairly weak except in a few wilderness heavy games. One possibility I've thought about is it adds a 'Jack of All Trades' bonus - you get to add the bonus to any skill check in any skill you aren't trained in. But I'm not sure how the math works out there. 'Craft' is also a possibility. - Good - Good. Roughly as strong as Astute. Not sure what to do to bump it up, as its already complex. - Good, but not good enough. Possibly add spellcraft to recognize a spell? If not merge with Trap sense and call it 'Danger Sense'. - Really weak by itself compared to broadly useful abilities like Sixth Sense, Guarded Mind, or Dauntless. Not sure what to do about it, but maybe merge with the above as per the suggestion in 'Spell Sense' or have it also add to Search to detect a trap. In general though, this is the sort of power creep that makes me leary of the otherwise interesting idea and makes me want to throw out Gaurded Mind and Dauntless as too potent and rebalance to nothing better than the original Daring. - Good, but both of these effects are easy to acquire immunity to or deal via minor spell use. Perhaps add Climb. [/QUOTE]

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