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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 1805457" data-attributes="member: 1465">Well, you've mentioned one of the things that has also made myself wonder many times...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Last time I thought about it (mind you that next time I think about it, I may come up with a different opinion  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> ) I was considering: is it really possible to use Search to look for something without knowing what you are looking for?If you see the SRD, it says Search can be used to look for a specific item but also to "notice" hidden things, but in a way that is what causes the problem: the players just say "we search the room for anything interesting", and you have to let them find traps, footprints, hidden doors, treasure.At least you can demand them to tell you what they are looking for, and also of course where in the room. I think you can do this without being house-ruling yet. Of course it may happen that the players then tell you "we search the desk for traps" "you find no traps" - "then we search the desk for treasure" "you fin no treasure" - "then we search the desk for hidden compartments" etc. just to drive you nuts.If you feel entitled of going a little over the boundaries of rules, I think that "noticing" things you are NOT specifically looking for (as giving a general casual glance on a piece of furniture) fits best with Spot. Although the current SRD mentions only other uses of Spot (noticing someone who's using Hide or Disguise for example), we have ALWAYS used Spot to NOTICE PASSIVELY and Search to ACTIVELY LOOK FOR.It fits a lot with the fact that Spot is based on Wisdom which includes attention and perception, while Search is based on Intelligence: in a away you can say that a smart character knows well where to look and what to look for when searching a specific thing (in a technical sort of way), while a perceptive character doesn't miss interesting details when he's looking for something else of just casually dropping eyes on the place.In some other specific cases you could resort to even other skills, such as a free Appraise check to notice that something is actually valuable, although that's probably plain HRing already.In brief, don't allow for "generic" search for anything possible.Incidentally, if you have designed a locale well, things to be found are always in places where it makes sense: traps are not placed on any floor square or object, but they are e.g. on a doorway which no one (except the owner, who knows the bypass) is supposed to walk, a drawer which contains secret books, a fake lock or handle... If the DM otherwise starts placing these hidden things in random places, the players get the feeling that there's little hope in trying to pinpoint where to search. IOW, give the good example and the players will follow! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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