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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5097269" data-attributes="member: 51942">There's obviously some sense to that.&nbsp; Still, I think it depends somewhat on the group - and this just won't work for some.&nbsp; In both I play in, the &quot;problem&quot; players play purely for fun; their mistakes are definitely honest (if occasionally frustrating).&nbsp; Telling em off won't work (tried that): what happens is simply that they still make mistakes, but that these mistakes sometimes cost the party dearly.&nbsp; The players in question may be annoyed by their mistake, but they don't really improve.So, what to do - punish the whole group for an outliers' fuzzy translation between intent and mechanics, or simply let it slide?Nobody can blame you for occasionally venting and being a bit pedantic when it crops up (and for players that 'll ever get things figured out) - but I'm sure things would be a lot less smooth-going if everyone that fails to mention when they take a shield on or off gets smashed for it.In any case, this thread is a bit off-topic...On the topic of the rules, you can't make a melee attack with a melee weapon that you aren't wielding.&nbsp; The &quot;correct&quot; ruling isn't that the attack provokes, it's that the entire situation doesn't make sense and can't occur.&nbsp; You can rule that he used his ranged weapon - even though that obviously wasn't the intent, perhaps in some situations that's a fair punishment - and then he'd provoke, but that's definitely not somehow &quot;correct&quot; in the sense of necessarily following from the rules.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 5097269, member: 51942"] There's obviously some sense to that. Still, I think it depends somewhat on the group - and this just won't work for some. In both I play in, the "problem" players play purely for fun; their mistakes are definitely honest (if occasionally frustrating). Telling em off won't work (tried that): what happens is simply that they still make mistakes, but that these mistakes sometimes cost the party dearly. The players in question may be annoyed by their mistake, but they don't really improve. So, what to do - punish the whole group for an outliers' fuzzy translation between intent and mechanics, or simply let it slide? Nobody can blame you for occasionally venting and being a bit pedantic when it crops up (and for players that 'll ever get things figured out) - but I'm sure things would be a lot less smooth-going if everyone that fails to mention when they take a shield on or off gets smashed for it. In any case, this thread is a bit off-topic... On the topic of the [I]rules[/I], you can't make a melee attack with a melee weapon that you aren't wielding. The "correct" ruling isn't that the attack provokes, it's that the entire situation doesn't make sense and can't occur. You can rule that he used his ranged weapon - even though that obviously wasn't the intent, perhaps in some situations that's a fair punishment - and [I]then[/I] he'd provoke, but that's definitely not somehow "correct" in the sense of necessarily following from the rules. [/QUOTE]

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