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Speculation about "the feelz" of D&D 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7021505" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I know dungeon crawling and running out of hps & CLW spells was a big deal and all, but D&D was still a Wargame. Said so right on the cover, y'know. </p><p></p><p>Meh. The game evolved little in the first 25 years. Resource management has always been part of it, for good reasons (hps, IMHO) and bad (Vancian casting, ditto). The bigger changes in the WotC years have been in focuse. 3e & 4e were very player focused, 5e is very DM focused.</p><p></p><p>I have two, small, issues with this idea.</p><p></p><p>1) Who cares? It's dead.</p><p></p><p>2) Resource management was very much a thing in 4e, it just wasn't instrumental in wrecking class balance, only in wrecking encounter balance.</p><p></p><p>Trivial. Maybe some folks did love the minutia of tracking every gp of weight (and where you kept each item, and how much each container weighed based on the obscure chart that came with the character sheets... I think I've said too much). But, ahem, maybe 'they' got over it as they got much, much older. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>But, seriously, you were closer to the mark with resource management. The thing that made 4e not feel like D&D was that casters had far fewer, far lower-impact spells, and non-casters had their own tricks that were comparable in both number and effectiveness. The resource management game was open to all PCs. That didn't feel like D&D. It felt like game balance. ;P</p><p></p><p> That, I'll agree with. </p><p></p><p>Not so much, no. I mean, with the right spell choices you can quite easily start ignoring a lot of mundane matters in any edition. You can actually have a more crushingly mundane (but still playable) campaign in 4e, if you limit PCs to martial classes, use inherent bonuses instead of items, and ban rituals. </p><p></p><p>I definitely appreciate 4e. I love some of the player options, and that they're not automatically inferior to others. I like what I can do with a build, without wrecking the game for everyone else. It's also terribly easy to run (I'm finishing off a 4e campaign, about 2-3 hrs a week devoted to it, and it's really not that much effort... even though the highest level PC just hit 22nd, It'd be a full-time job to run for 22nd-level 3.5 PCs.</p><p></p><p>OTOH, my first love will always be 1e AD&D. I'll play or run it once in a blue moon for the sheer nostalgia of it. I know how bad the system is, but it doesn't matter. Love is like that.</p><p></p><p>But there's two editions that have a special place: it's called the market. 3.5 (as PF) and 5e are /in print/. New stuff comes out for them. You can't beat that. And, between the two of them, they're a great gaming experience for me. Playing 3.5 is loads of fun, I can customize and trick out a build that neatly hits some concept on the nose - doesn't matter if it's a little over or under powered, it's playing exactly the character you envision that's awesome. Conversely, 5e is a blast to run. It's like 1e, except it's easy to find new players to <s>torture</s> I mean nurture. Yeah.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7021505, member: 996"] I know dungeon crawling and running out of hps & CLW spells was a big deal and all, but D&D was still a Wargame. Said so right on the cover, y'know. Meh. The game evolved little in the first 25 years. Resource management has always been part of it, for good reasons (hps, IMHO) and bad (Vancian casting, ditto). The bigger changes in the WotC years have been in focuse. 3e & 4e were very player focused, 5e is very DM focused. I have two, small, issues with this idea. 1) Who cares? It's dead. 2) Resource management was very much a thing in 4e, it just wasn't instrumental in wrecking class balance, only in wrecking encounter balance. Trivial. Maybe some folks did love the minutia of tracking every gp of weight (and where you kept each item, and how much each container weighed based on the obscure chart that came with the character sheets... I think I've said too much). But, ahem, maybe 'they' got over it as they got much, much older. ;) But, seriously, you were closer to the mark with resource management. The thing that made 4e not feel like D&D was that casters had far fewer, far lower-impact spells, and non-casters had their own tricks that were comparable in both number and effectiveness. The resource management game was open to all PCs. That didn't feel like D&D. It felt like game balance. ;P That, I'll agree with. Not so much, no. I mean, with the right spell choices you can quite easily start ignoring a lot of mundane matters in any edition. You can actually have a more crushingly mundane (but still playable) campaign in 4e, if you limit PCs to martial classes, use inherent bonuses instead of items, and ban rituals. I definitely appreciate 4e. I love some of the player options, and that they're not automatically inferior to others. I like what I can do with a build, without wrecking the game for everyone else. It's also terribly easy to run (I'm finishing off a 4e campaign, about 2-3 hrs a week devoted to it, and it's really not that much effort... even though the highest level PC just hit 22nd, It'd be a full-time job to run for 22nd-level 3.5 PCs. OTOH, my first love will always be 1e AD&D. I'll play or run it once in a blue moon for the sheer nostalgia of it. I know how bad the system is, but it doesn't matter. Love is like that. But there's two editions that have a special place: it's called the market. 3.5 (as PF) and 5e are /in print/. New stuff comes out for them. You can't beat that. And, between the two of them, they're a great gaming experience for me. Playing 3.5 is loads of fun, I can customize and trick out a build that neatly hits some concept on the nose - doesn't matter if it's a little over or under powered, it's playing exactly the character you envision that's awesome. Conversely, 5e is a blast to run. It's like 1e, except it's easy to find new players to [s]torture[/s] I mean nurture. Yeah. [/QUOTE]
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