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Speculation about "the feelz" of D&D 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7023242" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Oh, yeah, I came up against that constantly - try to have a decent Bond-villain type underground base, for instance. I used a hex map a few times in 4e games. Once when the party faced a Morkoth in it's lair, a couple of times in a short Far-Realm themed epic game. In both cases, they lent an air of the area being alien and confusing. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p> I've heard a few rave reviews of 5e that call it the best thing since 2e or otherwise make it clear that 2e is their vision of D&D, and 5e delivers on that vision. I've never heard /anyone/ comment that 5e compares to 3e or 4e that way, and rarely hear the OSR types waxing quite so rhapsodic, either. In a way, it's logical timing, the OSR thing has been going a while (starting with Hackmaster and Munchkin, in a light-hearted way, really), so the next cohort of D&Ders needed to be appealed to, right?</p><p></p><p>But, there are folks who reject every new edition, and even hate it, and stick with the last one. As we see in this sub-forum, there are folks striking with 4e and giving 5e a pass. They're just talking about it here, not edition-warring against 5e in forums devoted exclusively to it. </p><p></p><p> Interesting. Storyteller games, I found, were very readable, you could sit down and read one cover-to-cover almost like you'd read a novel, sometimes. It was futile to try to look up something you needed in play, though. So either memorize it or wing it. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p> The players I know who haven't adopted 5e have either stuck with PF or moved to 13th Age. I see the appeal in each, but 5e mostly matches them - and it's D&D. (Those still paying 4e, like myself, are /also/ playing 5e.)</p><p></p><p>For instance, 5e is tuned to resolve combat quickly: characters hit more often, do more damage, spells have more dramatic effects, monsters go down faster (so do PCs when the odds are against them). But that kind of tuning is the kind of thing a DM can easily work around. You don't /have/ to put a 5e party through 6-8 trivial fights a day, you can challenge them with larger more complex ones, and just make appropriate rulings & tweaks when the system creaks under the load. You've always been able to do that kind of thing, though. Under the RAW-uber-alles zietgiest of 3.5 you might more player push-back if you got creative on the fly; similarly, you could run quick/trivial fights in 4e, but your players might be disappointed and keep looking for the 'real challenge.' Expectations are a very important factor, and what you have to work with has a lot to do with that. 3.x and 4e lent themselves to quite-customized 'builds' so players could form a lot of expectations about how their characters might perform and develop in play. In the classic game, you more likely had to sit back and see what the DM tossed your way. The items (or as an MU, spells), tricks, traps, monsters, curses, and whatnot that the DM placed would shape your character far more than the decisions you made at chargen and (if any) level-up.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7023242, member: 996"] Oh, yeah, I came up against that constantly - try to have a decent Bond-villain type underground base, for instance. I used a hex map a few times in 4e games. Once when the party faced a Morkoth in it's lair, a couple of times in a short Far-Realm themed epic game. In both cases, they lent an air of the area being alien and confusing. ;) I've heard a few rave reviews of 5e that call it the best thing since 2e or otherwise make it clear that 2e is their vision of D&D, and 5e delivers on that vision. I've never heard /anyone/ comment that 5e compares to 3e or 4e that way, and rarely hear the OSR types waxing quite so rhapsodic, either. In a way, it's logical timing, the OSR thing has been going a while (starting with Hackmaster and Munchkin, in a light-hearted way, really), so the next cohort of D&Ders needed to be appealed to, right? But, there are folks who reject every new edition, and even hate it, and stick with the last one. As we see in this sub-forum, there are folks striking with 4e and giving 5e a pass. They're just talking about it here, not edition-warring against 5e in forums devoted exclusively to it. Interesting. Storyteller games, I found, were very readable, you could sit down and read one cover-to-cover almost like you'd read a novel, sometimes. It was futile to try to look up something you needed in play, though. So either memorize it or wing it. ;) The players I know who haven't adopted 5e have either stuck with PF or moved to 13th Age. I see the appeal in each, but 5e mostly matches them - and it's D&D. (Those still paying 4e, like myself, are /also/ playing 5e.) For instance, 5e is tuned to resolve combat quickly: characters hit more often, do more damage, spells have more dramatic effects, monsters go down faster (so do PCs when the odds are against them). But that kind of tuning is the kind of thing a DM can easily work around. You don't /have/ to put a 5e party through 6-8 trivial fights a day, you can challenge them with larger more complex ones, and just make appropriate rulings & tweaks when the system creaks under the load. You've always been able to do that kind of thing, though. Under the RAW-uber-alles zietgiest of 3.5 you might more player push-back if you got creative on the fly; similarly, you could run quick/trivial fights in 4e, but your players might be disappointed and keep looking for the 'real challenge.' Expectations are a very important factor, and what you have to work with has a lot to do with that. 3.x and 4e lent themselves to quite-customized 'builds' so players could form a lot of expectations about how their characters might perform and develop in play. In the classic game, you more likely had to sit back and see what the DM tossed your way. The items (or as an MU, spells), tricks, traps, monsters, curses, and whatnot that the DM placed would shape your character far more than the decisions you made at chargen and (if any) level-up. [/QUOTE]
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