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Speculation about "the feelz" of D&D 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="MwaO" data-source="post: 7023523" data-attributes="member: 12749"><p>I think three things are really wrong with 5e:</p><p>Boring PCs. My favorite aspect of 4e is how weapon-using, non-caster PCs are not locked into some weird 'hey, you can only do damage unless your DM is nice to you' routine in combat. 5e basically stomps all over that idea, with how short rests work, lack of the really fun Zone/Mobility options, lack of utility powers, etc...also, the lack of gotcha options. In 4e, having an option to make someone 'helpless' is a really big deal. In 1e-3e, being 'helpless' and getting targeted is basically instant death. 5e? You take a little extra damage and it is available all over the place. And in 5e, there are a lot of 'enemies no longer are functional' spells and without thinking about the consequences, how many targets are available increases as you go up levels. This turns even moderate level 5e into rocket tag unless you actually have 6-8 encounters per day. And by 9th, that's it - rocket tag forever after - unless the combat is expressly designed to make it really difficult for melee only non-casters by spreading out targets over a large area. 4e made Stunned(5e's incapicitated) and Helpless(5e's Helpless) really difficult to obtain. Pretty much ever for Helpless. 5e hands them both out as if they were candy.</p><p></p><p>Math problems. The bound for skills is too small, making them really strange in practice - the 1st level Fighter who opens a DC 15 Door 55% of the time compared to the 8 Str Wizard who opens it 25% of the time. Or vice-versa for the Arcana check. Yet Reliable Talent or Expertise in a skill eventually destroys the practical play usefulness - "I like to be good at Deception for the thrill!" Level 10 Rogue might have a +10, so hits DC 15 80%, DC 20 55%. Level 11 always succeeds at DC 20 checks. It doesn't appear that the person designing the magic item distribution system talked to people about how magic item distribution worked(you average a +3 item to hit over 20 levels - which really breaks the CR chart with the -5/+10 damage feats)</p><p></p><p>Adventurer's League's magic item distribution system. That might sound odd to bring up, but I've already had multiple mods spoiled in some way by a player looking for an item to make sure there wasn't a conflict. I absolutely hate sitting down at a table with someone who is cheating and at the same time understand fully why they might have cheated. And I don't want to tell a DM that I want to move tables for some unspecified reason. Especially if my PC would benefit from moving tables. "Hi, a cheater just told me that we're both likely going after the same item. Can I move to another table where I could then get the item without conflict. Not because I'm a cheater, but I hate sitting with cheaters. Even if I benefit."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MwaO, post: 7023523, member: 12749"] I think three things are really wrong with 5e: Boring PCs. My favorite aspect of 4e is how weapon-using, non-caster PCs are not locked into some weird 'hey, you can only do damage unless your DM is nice to you' routine in combat. 5e basically stomps all over that idea, with how short rests work, lack of the really fun Zone/Mobility options, lack of utility powers, etc...also, the lack of gotcha options. In 4e, having an option to make someone 'helpless' is a really big deal. In 1e-3e, being 'helpless' and getting targeted is basically instant death. 5e? You take a little extra damage and it is available all over the place. And in 5e, there are a lot of 'enemies no longer are functional' spells and without thinking about the consequences, how many targets are available increases as you go up levels. This turns even moderate level 5e into rocket tag unless you actually have 6-8 encounters per day. And by 9th, that's it - rocket tag forever after - unless the combat is expressly designed to make it really difficult for melee only non-casters by spreading out targets over a large area. 4e made Stunned(5e's incapicitated) and Helpless(5e's Helpless) really difficult to obtain. Pretty much ever for Helpless. 5e hands them both out as if they were candy. Math problems. The bound for skills is too small, making them really strange in practice - the 1st level Fighter who opens a DC 15 Door 55% of the time compared to the 8 Str Wizard who opens it 25% of the time. Or vice-versa for the Arcana check. Yet Reliable Talent or Expertise in a skill eventually destroys the practical play usefulness - "I like to be good at Deception for the thrill!" Level 10 Rogue might have a +10, so hits DC 15 80%, DC 20 55%. Level 11 always succeeds at DC 20 checks. It doesn't appear that the person designing the magic item distribution system talked to people about how magic item distribution worked(you average a +3 item to hit over 20 levels - which really breaks the CR chart with the -5/+10 damage feats) Adventurer's League's magic item distribution system. That might sound odd to bring up, but I've already had multiple mods spoiled in some way by a player looking for an item to make sure there wasn't a conflict. I absolutely hate sitting down at a table with someone who is cheating and at the same time understand fully why they might have cheated. And I don't want to tell a DM that I want to move tables for some unspecified reason. Especially if my PC would benefit from moving tables. "Hi, a cheater just told me that we're both likely going after the same item. Can I move to another table where I could then get the item without conflict. Not because I'm a cheater, but I hate sitting with cheaters. Even if I benefit." [/QUOTE]
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