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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7035821" data-attributes="member: 82106">Right, its not tactical complexity that makes 4e interesting. Its mechanical representation of character thematics that WORKS. You don't want to get in the grill of my 4e weapon master fighter because once you do you're stuck there and subject to his whim, and that's mechanically modeled by the game, its not some kind of hoped-for DM-generated result, nor dependent on the DM to agree to imagine the bad guy being stuck in front of you (which admittedly is a detail you can both PROBABLY agree on, but its not certain).One of the things this leads to is real focus on specific thematics. If I want to be a 'fire mage' in 4e I can do it in spades! I can be a Tiefling spouting brimstone, resisting fire, casting fire magic every round, using fires for ritual magic, flavoring every little thing I do as 'fire' something. It works. Now, in one sense I do like 5e's approach though. It tends to package stuff in fewer options, so to be a fire mage in 5e, maybe its not so well detailed mechanically, but you don't have to wade through as many choices to get to its version of that. I think this is a way in which 4e didn't succeed. A lot of people appreciate the fine-grained build options, but a LOT also would probably do better with coarser options.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7035821, member: 82106"] Right, its not tactical complexity that makes 4e interesting. Its mechanical representation of character thematics that WORKS. You don't want to get in the grill of my 4e weapon master fighter because once you do you're stuck there and subject to his whim, and that's mechanically modeled by the game, its not some kind of hoped-for DM-generated result, nor dependent on the DM to agree to imagine the bad guy being stuck in front of you (which admittedly is a detail you can both PROBABLY agree on, but its not certain). One of the things this leads to is real focus on specific thematics. If I want to be a 'fire mage' in 4e I can do it in spades! I can be a Tiefling spouting brimstone, resisting fire, casting fire magic every round, using fires for ritual magic, flavoring every little thing I do as 'fire' something. It works. Now, in one sense I do like 5e's approach though. It tends to package stuff in fewer options, so to be a fire mage in 5e, maybe its not so well detailed mechanically, but you don't have to wade through as many choices to get to its version of that. I think this is a way in which 4e didn't succeed. A lot of people appreciate the fine-grained build options, but a LOT also would probably do better with coarser options. [/QUOTE]

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