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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7039772" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Yeah, I missed this post in this thread earlier (I was heavily skimming due to lack of time).&nbsp; Interestingly, I had <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?520699-I-love-5E-but-lately-I-miss-4E-s-monsters&amp;p=7014039&amp;viewfull=1#post7014039" target="_blank">a conversation awhile ago in another thread about this exact same thing.</a>&nbsp; This video mirrors my points almost exactly.&nbsp; The conversation continued in that thread with some participants saying:1)&nbsp; 4e's dragons had too much mental overhead and table handling timecoupled with2)&nbsp; Their distinct abilities (which were the origin of the alleged exacerbation of mental overhead and table handling time) not actually engendering...distinctiveness!Adding an Inferno and Immolate analogue to 5e wouldn't render the Ancient Red more distinctive from the Ancient Blue...and it would just be too much cognitive workload?&nbsp; Errr?&nbsp; The conversation continued from there as I found that (and still do...not just because its empirically false but because its even theoretically hard to fathom someone taking a position).&nbsp; Read it at your discretion (I bailed after a few head-scratching responses).&nbsp; What I find most fascinating about that exchange (and similar exchanges) is the utterly untenable position that 5e dragons are distinct while at the same time being on the &quot;4e PC homogeneity&quot; train.&nbsp; 5e dragons on the wing are NEARLY EXACTLY THE SAME AS EACH OTHER (LR 3/day, Multiattack, Bite, Claw, Tail, Breath Weapon, LAs of Detect/Tail/Wing) save for minor base stat fluctuation and the distinction of their elemental shtick (breath weapon type and immunity).&nbsp; A few of them have Burrow.&nbsp; * But 4e PCs are homogeneous and lacking mechanical and archetypal distinction?&nbsp; Given that 4e PCs are PROFOUNDLY distinctive in play, right out of the box (from both a tactical depth perspective and the way their thematics manifest in the fiction in combat, SCs, and Quests), that is a nightmare of a position to try to intellectually defend.&nbsp; I'm so glad I don't have to try to maintain those two positions simultaneously.* Now their Lair Actions are where the distinction and interesting nuance (tactical depth, archetype coming out in the fiction) manifests with 5e dragons.&nbsp; But managing Lair Actions somehow doesn't increase mental overhead to the point that the cognitive workload becomes too burdensome?&nbsp; But simply adding unique Legendary Actions or a Passive Aura would?&nbsp; </blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7039772, member: 6696971"] Yeah, I missed this post in this thread earlier (I was heavily skimming due to lack of time). Interestingly, I had [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?520699-I-love-5E-but-lately-I-miss-4E-s-monsters&p=7014039&viewfull=1#post7014039"]a conversation awhile ago in another thread about this exact same thing.[/URL] This video mirrors my points almost exactly. The conversation continued in that thread with some participants saying: 1) 4e's dragons had too much mental overhead and table handling time coupled with 2) Their distinct abilities (which were the origin of the alleged exacerbation of mental overhead and table handling time) not actually engendering...distinctiveness! Adding an Inferno and Immolate analogue to 5e wouldn't render the Ancient Red more distinctive from the Ancient Blue...and it would just be too much cognitive workload? Errr? The conversation continued from there as I found that (and still do...not just because its empirically false but because its even theoretically hard to fathom someone taking a position). Read it at your discretion (I bailed after a few head-scratching responses). What I find most fascinating about that exchange (and similar exchanges) is the utterly untenable position that 5e dragons are distinct while at the same time being on the "4e PC homogeneity" train. 5e dragons on the wing are NEARLY EXACTLY THE SAME AS EACH OTHER (LR 3/day, Multiattack, Bite, Claw, Tail, Breath Weapon, LAs of Detect/Tail/Wing) save for minor base stat fluctuation and the distinction of their elemental shtick (breath weapon type and immunity). A few of them have Burrow. * But 4e PCs are homogeneous and lacking mechanical and archetypal distinction? Given that 4e PCs are PROFOUNDLY distinctive in play, right out of the box (from both a tactical depth perspective and the way their thematics manifest in the fiction in combat, SCs, and Quests), that is a nightmare of a position to try to intellectually defend. I'm so glad I don't have to try to maintain those two positions simultaneously. [SIZE=1] * Now their Lair Actions are where the distinction and interesting nuance (tactical depth, archetype coming out in the fiction) manifests with 5e dragons. But managing Lair Actions somehow doesn't increase mental overhead to the point that the cognitive workload becomes too burdensome? But simply adding unique Legendary Actions or a Passive Aura would? [/SIZE] [/QUOTE]

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