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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 7043945" data-attributes="member: 87792">Optimizer-ville is a land with very loosely defined boundaries. And unless you give bonuses for sticking with the whole package either you have to min-max to a razor's edge your pregens or there will always be something better at some levels that sticks out like a sore thumb due to the modular package. I'm very much in favour of the "Free utility power for picking a pre-gen package" option.Indeed. It would also add overhead to the Slayer for the players the Slayer is a good match for, making the Slayer a lot less good at serving players under-served by most normal character classes.The knight feels like it was made to mesh with a party in the way most other classes weren't - and most soldiers don't make good defenders. It's boring to play but is very good to play off with for example provoke tactics.The overall complexity is not that different. The chores are almost entirely unaffected. The learning curve? As I have already explained repeatedly I have seen multiple players who did not really get characters in two years of 4e take to Slayers, Hunters, and Scouts like a duck to water.To use a metaphor you are complaining that adding a wheelchair ramp makes buildings less accessible because the guides have more to remember when showing people around and many people find walking up stairs easier than walking up a ramp.And yet you really don't like them having access to characters that fit them in the form of a slayer or a scout?And when I say a lot of developer time I mean a lot. We're talking about doubling the design time for just about every class.Aaargggh!!!What is a psionic character supposed to do? What is a divine character supposed to do? To have a simple character working effectively you need a simple concept. The Slayer is a simple concept. The elementalist (blasts people with their element) is a simple concept. The power source is a second order concept that unifies various themes.This isn't to say that you can't have a simple psionic character. Both a telepath and a telekinetic could work (although both of them can easily be created as hacks of the elementalist). And there's a lot of room for reworking to get a simpler shapeshifter druid. But to get simple working you need to start with high concept.Once again you are trying to set up some people as second class citizens. If you look at my personal irritant of a class, the (Essentials) Hunter, try counting the number of At Will attack options the Hunter has. Two stances, multiplied by five at will attacks (Aimed Shot, Rapid Shot, three separate variations of Clever Shot (Slow/Prone/Push)). And yet. For some people playing the Hunter is a lot more natural than playing a classic Ranger to the point that when I respecced a twin-striking archer ranger with strong power pics into a Hunter for someone after about six months of play he suddenly got a lot more effective and a lot more comfortable with the game.Yes, I just said that a twin-striking ranger became more effective when they were turned into an Essentials Hunter. Mathematically this should not be. But I have seen it happen - a poor tool you understand is frequently better than a good one you don't. (And their turns taking about half the time was another bonus).</blockquote>

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