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<blockquote data-quote="Skyscraper" data-source="post: 5777258" data-attributes="member: 48518">[MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION]: okay, gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I agree with you on not counting squares then, we already work this way, at least pretty much.Yeah, I hear you. The thing is, I play with different people who play different systems, some of whom are quick to pick up new systems and some not that much; I also play with a few new players (some of which are quick, some not that much). And in the end, we've discussed these issues but they still crop up. So I have the choice of (a) brining this up all the time, but I don't feel like doing it because people are having fun nonetheless and butt-kicking for people to act quicker is not fun; or (b) choose playgroups that have only quick players in them, but we have fun with our slow(er) friends too, again this is not a solution I contemplate.Really, I can point fingers at my gaming table to identify who takes longer to play, but in the end, my finger ends up pointing at the rules books as the main antagonist. People are people and I can't expect that'll change anytime soon. It's the game that should adapt to them, not the other way around. The 4E system is great, but too complex (read: to get a diversified group of people to play it and end battles in a reasonable time, for my taste. Not too complex in an absolute, is-it-understandable-at-all kind of way).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Skyscraper, post: 5777258, member: 48518"] [MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION]: okay, gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I agree with you on not counting squares then, we already work this way, at least pretty much. Yeah, I hear you. The thing is, I play with different people who play different systems, some of whom are quick to pick up new systems and some not that much; I also play with a few new players (some of which are quick, some not that much). And in the end, we've discussed these issues but they still crop up. So I have the choice of (a) brining this up all the time, but I don't feel like doing it because people are having fun nonetheless and butt-kicking for people to act quicker is not fun; or (b) choose playgroups that have only quick players in them, but we have fun with our slow(er) friends too, again this is not a solution I contemplate. Really, I can point fingers at my gaming table to identify who takes longer to play, but in the end, my finger ends up pointing at the rules books as the main antagonist. People are people and I can't expect that'll change anytime soon. It's the game that should adapt to them, not the other way around. The 4E system is great, but too complex (read: to get a diversified group of people to play it and end battles in a reasonable time, for my taste. Not too complex in an absolute, is-it-understandable-at-all kind of way). [/QUOTE]

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