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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 3855144" data-attributes="member: 51942">Selectively reading rules is potentially annoying.&nbsp; But I don't think there's much doubt that kelpstrand says Y and not X:A normal grapple check includes a strength bonus and a base attack bonus (and other bonuses when applicable, such as size bonuses and/or feats or other effects).&nbsp; The spell clearly states that you're still performing a grapple check, and that two specific bonuses are replaced by two other specific bonuses.&nbsp; If you were to argue that it's not you grappling but the kelp, then you wouldn't ever add your Strength and size bonuses anyhow, which makes the spell description pretty nonsensical.&nbsp; Further, it actually literally says &quot;your grapple check&quot;, after all.Really, I can only see one possible interpretation - you roll an entirely normal grapple check with all applicable bonuses and penalties, with only one modification:&nbsp; you don't add your Strength bonus and size bonus, but instead add your Wisdom bonus and your caster level.That's far too abusable, and should have been in the errata.&nbsp; Oh well... I'll just ban it ;-).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 3855144, member: 51942"] Selectively reading rules is potentially annoying. But I don't think there's much doubt that kelpstrand says [i]Y[/i] and not [i]X[/i]: A normal grapple check includes a strength bonus and a base attack bonus (and other bonuses when applicable, such as size bonuses and/or feats or other effects). The spell clearly states that you're still performing a grapple check, and that two specific bonuses are replaced by two other specific bonuses. If you were to argue that it's not you grappling but the kelp, then you wouldn't ever add [i]your[/i] Strength and size bonuses anyhow, which makes the spell description pretty nonsensical. Further, it actually literally says "your grapple check", after all. Really, I can only see one possible interpretation - you roll an entirely normal grapple check with all applicable bonuses and penalties, with only one modification: you don't add your Strength bonus and size bonus, but instead add your Wisdom bonus and your caster level. That's far too abusable, and should have been in the errata. Oh well... I'll just ban it ;-). [/QUOTE]

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