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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 7323345" data-attributes="member: 6932123">I need to include spells like those so I can see where things get overpowered.  The system needs to help indicate that.  Fireball is known to be overpowered, so my system should show that it crosses the line. If it doesn't, then something's wrong.I'm not worried that spells don't compete with Fireball.  I'm worried that spells aren't level-appropriate, period.  What combination of damage, area, duration, and other effects starts pushing the spell too far?The DMG guidelines are ridiculously insufficient.  They only give target values for damage numbers (and even then, it could be done better), and give you no clue on how to balance other aspects of spells.  The general spell list is used to test the validity of my system.I want something to help shore up character concepts, without giving away too many overpowered goodies.  The goal is to be able to draw a line in the sand and say, "No more than this."  At the same time, the spellcaster shouldn't be overtly gimped, nor forced to select the 'iconic' spells just to remain relevant.Alright, executive summary version.Get the number of points available to a spell.  This is 1 + 2*Spell Level, and +1 point per spell component (VSM).  Points are spent on various benefits, or increased by taking flaws. Do not go over the point limit.Costs:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Range: No effect on cost that I can determine.  Select something appropriate.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Area: A 5' radius sphere at level 1 (and cantrips), +5' per level up to level 6 (30'), +10' per level up to 9 (60').  Use this to determine comparable ground areas, or total volume for some spell types.  If the area/volume of a spell is appropriate to its level, it costs 0 points.  For every level higher, add 1 point, and for every level lower, subtract 1 point. (Document has much more detailed chart.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If a spell has a duration, add 1 point for every tier: 1 round, 1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour, 8 hours.  If a spell takes concentration to maintain, subtract 2 points.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The target average damage for a single-target spell is 5 for cantrips, and +8 per level thereafter (except level 9, which gets +14).  Area effect spells have a target average damage value that is 2/3 the single target value.  Look up a table of dice values (chart in the document) to figure out what combination of dice approximate your target damage value (or work backwards to figure out what level a given amount of dice represent).  Damage costs 2 times the damage level (eg: a spell doing level 3 damage would cost +6 points).  Cantrip damage level costs 1 point.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Add other bonuses and flaws.  Trivial stuff costs 0.5 points. Typical minor benefits cost 1 or 2 points.  Significant effects may cost more.</li> </ul>What I usually see is that non-damaging spells use right up to the point limit.  Damaging spells are usually in the upper range of the available points, but usually won't reach the point limit unless they add some bonus effects.[1]  Many notably underpowered spells use less than half the point limit.  The only spell I've measured so far that went over the point limit was Fireball.  Fireball and Lightning Bolt are also the only spells I've examined that do damage higher than their spell level.[1] Instantaneous and 1 minute concentration spells will cost 0 points.  Area effect appropriate to its level costs 0 points.  Damage appropriate to its level costs 2*Level points.  That leaves the spell with 1+(VSM) points for extra effects that many pure damage spells don't use, but could, if they were so inclined.  Or they may increase the duration (more likely for high-level spells) or area (more likely with low-level spells).</blockquote>

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