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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6293750" data-attributes="member: 14506">I think this is wrong. Shocking Grasp should be a fortitude to resist. It should be automatic to &quot;touch&quot; and then the person that receives the zap should be allowed to resist the damage with a save. I think a Str/Dex vs Dex is not the appropriate thing that should be tested when it comes to a Shocking Grasp spell. It should be a Int vs. Con and then further it should fall in line with the rest of the system and be a save like the vast majority of spells.I can see an argument where many spells roll to attack, and then the defender also gets a save. This could be applied to weaken a particular spell, giving the opportunity for the spell to fail twice, but I don't like that. Though I can imagine several scenarios where this would apply. A spell that enhances a weapon for a duration and when it deals damage an effect occurs, they would get a save then.I don't think so, I think attack rolls is where these should be. None of these should auto-hit. I think high-level fighters virtually auto-hit by virtue of the system but it is still an attack. With an &quot;area&quot; based attack because it is so big, this is a little trickier. I think it is an attack roll still, because it is a function of scale. A giant's club against a giant is not an &quot;area&quot; attack. I think it can be weird to change between those scales. If you do add a rule in the game for large weapon attacks as area attacks it should be a general rule and not something specific to siege weapons or written into the giant monster entry.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6293750, member: 14506"] I think this is wrong. Shocking Grasp should be a fortitude to resist. It should be automatic to "touch" and then the person that receives the zap should be allowed to resist the damage with a save. I think a Str/Dex vs Dex is not the appropriate thing that should be tested when it comes to a Shocking Grasp spell. It should be a Int vs. Con and then further it should fall in line with the rest of the system and be a save like the vast majority of spells. I can see an argument where many spells roll to attack, and then the defender also gets a save. This could be applied to weaken a particular spell, giving the opportunity for the spell to fail twice, but I don't like that. Though I can imagine several scenarios where this would apply. A spell that enhances a weapon for a duration and when it deals damage an effect occurs, they would get a save then. I don't think so, I think attack rolls is where these should be. None of these should auto-hit. I think high-level fighters virtually auto-hit by virtue of the system but it is still an attack. With an "area" based attack because it is so big, this is a little trickier. I think it is an attack roll still, because it is a function of scale. A giant's club against a giant is not an "area" attack. I think it can be weird to change between those scales. If you do add a rule in the game for large weapon attacks as area attacks it should be a general rule and not something specific to siege weapons or written into the giant monster entry. [/QUOTE]

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