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<blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 493055" data-attributes="member: 7211">My interpretationOk to spot any invisible schmo it is a spot DC 20, but it isnt very accurate, in other words, you know which square but you cant make out any definite features.However, if you are invisible and hiding, then I would rule that they first needed to pass the 20, then whatever your hide check is. And they still wouldn't know much about where you are except which 5x5 grid.For your spell, lets say youre trying to creep along past a guard. Because of the guard who is making active listening checks, he would need to beat a 20 to hear &quot;something&quot;. Now if you are also moving silently, he would then have to beat whatever DC your check was.In this way, the integrity of these spells is kept at 2nd level power. In other words, a reknown ranger with max ranks in spot and listen may spot either arcane trick, but it will get you past most &quot;regular&quot; people, even high level fighters, druids, clerics, etc.The parallel to the jump spell isnt quite accurate because jump only applies to 1 jump, whereas you could sneak past a barracks of guards with this spell.Also, just because they hear &quot;something&quot; if they beat a 20 (and your move silently check), unless they are on some kind of alert it would probably be dismissed. Also note negatives for listen checks per distance. The same applies to spot, but I would say if a guard actually sees anything he may act on it. In this way, hearing is more powerful because it won't be jumped on the way sight would be.Whew,Technik</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Technik4, post: 493055, member: 7211"] [b]My interpretation[/b] Ok to spot any invisible schmo it is a spot DC 20, but it isnt very accurate, in other words, you know which square but you cant make out any definite features. However, if you are invisible and hiding, then I would rule that they first needed to pass the 20, then whatever your hide check is. And they still wouldn't know much about where you are except which 5x5 grid. For your spell, lets say youre trying to creep along past a guard. Because of the guard who is making active listening checks, he would need to beat a 20 to hear "something". Now if you are also moving silently, he would then have to beat whatever DC your check was. In this way, the integrity of these spells is kept at 2nd level power. In other words, a reknown ranger with max ranks in spot and listen may spot either arcane trick, but it will get you past most "regular" people, even high level fighters, druids, clerics, etc. The parallel to the jump spell isnt quite accurate because jump only applies to 1 jump, whereas you could sneak past a barracks of guards with this spell. Also, just because they hear "something" if they beat a 20 (and your move silently check), unless they are on some kind of alert it would probably be dismissed. Also note negatives for listen checks per distance. The same applies to spot, but I would say if a guard actually sees anything he may act on it. In this way, hearing is more powerful because it won't be jumped on the way sight would be. Whew, Technik [/QUOTE]

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